Has the economy affected you and your tractors?

[MikePA]

If one of the richest guys in the world says he should be paying more taxes, something is wrong with the tax system.

If anyone says they should be paying more taxes, there's something wrong with them! :laughing: I agree with timswi, there's nothing stopping Warren from sending a check to the treasury for whatever he feels he should be paying.

 

[dave1949]

Yes, I am also off to the horizontal mind altering device (hmad) which brings up another topic, why do we sleep? What is happening to our brain? Have you ever had a dream so real that later on you think about it and are not sure if you have actually done it or just dreamed it?

I've had some dreams I wish were real when I woke up

I don't think we are in much disagreement. I have nothing against wealth. There will always be wealthy and poor in any system.

I do have an issue with media people of a certain philosphical bent telling one-sided tales however. It takes a village to make a wealthy person I think the vast majority of truly wealthy folks realize that.
Dave.

 

[dave1949]

If anyone says they should be paying more taxes, there's something wrong with them! :laughing: I agree with timswi, there's nothing stopping Warren from sending a check to the treasury for whatever he feels he should be paying.

Hi Mike,

For all I know, Warren does that . I think Mr. Buffet's point is that the tax laws tend to benefit the wealthy to the point that they are not all that progressive; not that he wishes to pay more taxes.
Dave.

 

[eepete]

I hope it's not tax evasion to steer a bit more on thread...

As some of you may know from another thread, I had a pole building collapse this winter. There are two gentlemen that are deconstructing it for the wood and metal. Both are in construction. Every now and then they miss a day or two because they have a small job. Four years ago, they would not of had the time. So for them, they have the time and it's worth it to cut trusses apart for the 16' 2x4's in them, and re-use the metal roof to make shed extensions for their own sheds.
Another guy they know will be picking up all the small bits of wood, including the nails and gusset plates, and all to burn in his wood stove. He has a pit he put ashes that have nails and metal in them. He's saving money not buying firewood.

Our old house has been on the market for a year, not one showing. There are 12 other houses in the county in that range (requires a jumbo loan) that have had none to few showings. While the 1200 sq ft 1st homes are getting better, the 2nd homes sales are in trouble. Bad for me, but maybe a sign of hope regarding how everyone is finally paying attention to their finances. They are not trading up unless they can afford it, and are currently paying down all the debt they can.

Since I do mostly contract work, I have to have no debt and enough cash to go for quite a while. Back in the late 70's it was clear to me that company pensions were going away or going to collapse, so I always assumed I'd be on my own. It also seemed to me that Social Security might be enough to pay the electric bill and would probably be cut back based on how much you had saved up. After all, all the laws of the land reward borrowing (you can deduct the paid interest) and punish saving (you have to pay on interest/dividends yo make). Have had negative net worth twice, that will sober you up in a hurry. So an unintended side affect of my career path was being in OK shape to get through this all. That's how the economy has affected me, I'll be glad when it's better, the old house sells, and the contract work picks up.

As for how the economy has affected my tractors, last year I payed to have every little thing that was wrong with my B21 fixed. So like many homeowners who are now fixing and remolding instead of buying a new home, I've made sure my 'ol B21 is ready for another lucky 13 years of service. After 20 years, the starter on my JD 318 went and that was a "fix it, don't buy new" decision too. I did get a new JD 2520 last year. Had a good consulting job and it was clear I was going to drive the 318 into the ground doing all the mowing around here. I have high hopes that the 4520 will be in my estate, but would not be unhappy if I was wrong .

Pete

 

[dave1949]

Before I toddle off to bed(We have visitor's from across the pond) One comment: I would rather pay $10000 for a new library, than a dime on welfare.
(you got lucky dave, Had a whole long rant, before my guests arrived, had to dump it,

Saved from a rant by jet lag

It's all relative. I would rather donate a book to the library than pay taxes to support military adventurism for the benefit of some corporation - for example.

As to welfare, if it results in children getting the nutrition they need for a healthy mind and body, I prefer that to the alternatives -which btw cost more. Or, how about a woman with or without children escaping an abusive partner? How about a family made destitute by huge medical bills or an out-sourced job? There are many situations people can find themselves in that aren't the stereotyped deadbeat.

The welfare should be reasonable and a bridge to a return to financial soundness with clear expectations. I think that is where welfare often fails and consequently people resent paying for it. I don't think people resent offering a helping hand where needed. The coins and bills in the collection jars at stores are a testament to that - not to be confused with the health care plan envisioned by some
Dave.

 

[keegs]

As to welfare, if it results in children getting the nutrition they need for a healthy mind and body, I prefer that to the alternatives -which btw cost more. Or, how about a woman with or without children escaping an abusive partner? How about a family made destitute by huge medical bills or an out-sourced job? There are many situations people can find themselves in that aren't the stereotyped deadbeat.

Dave.

but by the grace of God there go I....or a loved one.

 

[dave1949]

I've never made over 40K in my life and have managed to pay off two houses, 20 acres, send my kids to private schools and have decent running cars. My wife works, too, however, if she did not work we would have saved a fortune on child care, extra car and associated car costs, etc... so much so that we still could have saved for retirement. Had we skipped private schools, we would have had an additional 75K in the bank. We have contributed to our 401k's out of pocket almost the exact same amount that we spent on child care over the last 17 years. So, it is realistic to make 40K a year, buy a home, have a decent running car, send your kids to good schools AND save for retirement.... IF you do not buy new homes, new cars, high end consumer electronics, bigger tractors than you really need (gotta keep it tractor related :laughing: ), lots of toys, etc.... I do realize that I am fortunate to have a job with O.K. health insurance. Without that benefit, the story might be completely different. Anyhow, I think many people tend to want too much too fast and live up to or even beyond their means way to early in their lives. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

You are right. You and your wife have worked hard, lived within your means and saved for the future. It sounds like you and your wife have been married quite a while? If so, you and she chose well and are a bit stubborn

We just had our 39th Anniv., so I can't speak from personal experience on this. But it seems like divorce is one of the biggest threats to middle income families financial health.

You don't really want to know how much one of you is earning per hour when you subtract the cost of having the second job from the after tax income of the second job. I have done that math and it's just better to be blissfully ignorant
Dave.

 

[MikePA]

I think Mr. Buffet's point is that the tax laws tend to benefit the wealthy to the point that they are not all that progressive; not that he wishes to pay more taxes.

Hi Dave,

The tax laws benefit anyone who has investment income, like Warren. My CER (Class Envy Radar) alerts whenever I see the phrase 'benefit the wealthy'.

EDIT: I agree with having social safety nets, like welfare, unemployment, etc. The problem is, we don't have safety nets we have safety sofas.

 

[Mousefield]

but by the grace of God there go I....or a loved one.

How true. Thanks for the timely reminder.

 

[_RaT_]

Hi Dave,

The tax laws benefit anyone who has investment income, like Warren. My CER (Class Envy Radar) alerts whenever I see the words 'benefit the wealthy'.

Mike, is that what you call it. :thumbsup: My CER is pinging me all the time. I'm finding those on the left are more inclined to set it off.