Not to start an argument..............

scoutcub · Apr 6, 2010

OK Robert White....I can't resist....I'll chime in with my .02,,no wait, .03 cents worth.
First of all, you must've realized you would start some arguing even though you specifically warned against it. I can see the hackles being raised thru out the comments. And obviously several people don't really read your stated post, where you disallow or make amends for certain criteria, they blindly read right thru it and see "us vs them" or you questioning the value of their mighty green or orange machine. At least I see a few unbiased responses in there.

I think the average consumer is brand loyal. Unless they have a major issue with a manufacturer, they will stay with what they've chosen and probably talk or brag it up on occasion. I'm the same way. I grew up on a small farm with IH tractors and IH Scouts. Learned to love em. Have owned several Scouts, used to buy and sell em. When it was time for tractors, I transitioned right into Cubs. Have owned Cubs since 1995 and Cub compacts since 2000. I currently own 3 compacts, a UTV, and a lawn tractor (all Cub). Never had a tractor in the shop. I buy and sell Cub compacts so am familiar with the prices.
As you stated in your thread, you can find a EX450 w/loader for 17-18K. This is right around dealer price. I follow the prices and have seen them for sale. The same tractor with orange or green paint will be several thousand $$ more.
In all fairness, you would get more money out of a Kubota or JD if you sold it. The name just brings more. And buying a dealership/company? I have a Cub dealer a mile from my house that I will NEVER go to again. I've tried them several times and can't believe their lack of knowledge and laziness.
If I need parts, I'll shop around on the phone/internet and have them shipped. So buying the dealership is not important to me.
Although I'm brand loyal, I try not to be biased. I think orange, green, red, blue etc. all make good machines these days. They have to or they'll go out of business. I'm not so sure about the gray market machines, because i don't know anything about them.
I bought my dad a JD 4310 w/loader. Great tractor, he loves it. I compared it very closely with my Cub 7532 and don't see any advantages. Both great tractors. My first two Cub super garden tractors had the Kubota diesels, also great tractors/engines.
Cummins makes great engines, I have one in my dozer. But I personally don't like the looks of Dodge pickups. I do like the new looks of Chevy/GMC but my Ford has treated me very well thus far, so I'll stick with it for now.....

It simply boils down to personal preference, however you want to wrap/justify it. Kubota and JD are the easiest choices, because they have the most machines and dealerships out there. Many people are willing to pay more for the name, and reputation. Some are not. At least we are in a country where we have so many choices....

jenkinsph · Apr 6, 2010

robertwhite said:
:laughing: I couldn't figure out the JD site, you couldn't figure out the Kubota site. Pretty funny. Kubota is easy. Just go to their home page and click on the rural lifestyle photo. From there click on the L series and then pick which one you want, then up near the top is a build your own tab.

I will have to look at the JD site again. I won't be very happy if the guy priced it out at full retail and tried to play me for a fool.

ETA: Just went back to the JD site and found the build it part. Sure enough the clown of a dealer tried to sell the tractor for FULL retail. Base 3320 with Hydro and FEL is $25192 LIST.

I freakin' hate people like that.

Now if we look at full retail on the L3400 which comes in at $21, 050, it is still a $4K difference. That's a lot of impliments.

Well, I still can't find a build and price section on the Kubota site, but there is a tab showing finance offers.

patrick_g · Apr 6, 2010

Cat_Driver said:
When your talking the " top two" Deere/Kubota over the other I think the extra money is going towards support and support is everything.

Attitude is a factor too!

I'm driving Orange because the nearest Green store was a real PITA with their attitude. They are a tractor boutique with a haughty attitude problem and treated me like I had leprosy. They did not take me seriously and made no effort to determine that I wasn't just some "Lookie Lou" tire kicker. Their loss, I walked out and spent Over $30,000 cash at the Orange store and never went back.

I am convinced Green is good stuff but attitude is a factor. Another Green dealer told a friend of mine that model X was all the tractor he needed for his 160 acre cow calf operation so the buddy bought it. Then he finds that they don't sell a hay spike for that model, just the next larger one and up. He built his own spike for the FEL but he can barely lift a round bale and not very high. Can't stack them. He is VERY envious of the capabilities of my Orange tractor and I only have a very few more HP. I stack thousand pound plus round bales three rows high in my hay barn.

The above may not be typical across the board but two out of two Green dealers were jerks in our sampling. I trade at two Orange dealers (they are 30 miles away in opposite directions. Both are friendly, knowledgeable, helpful, and don't have attitude problems. Again, a small sample but the way it is in these parts. I'm sure there are terrific Green dealerships, somewhere, just not within 40-50 miles of us.

Pat

radioman · Apr 6, 2010

interesting reading- I think scoutcub said it the best. I went with name brand, kubota due to price and features. I wanted something that I could get stuff for, cheap that everyone does too. If I got a off brand, I'd be hardpressed to find accessories so it means to be more inventive. I prefer not to be SOOO inventive, but come up with simple ideas with common unit. Since Massey is copying the kubota BX series, We now can exhange ideas and parts if needed.

I am not worried about resale value, I am more concerned of being able to get parts to keep the thing running when it gets old. If I get something that is expensive, I want to get parts to keep it running - plain and simple. If it a cheap product, I want to be able to use it a few time to make it pay for itself until I know what I really am looking for for a better, more expensive unit.

make sense?

good luck hunting.

robertwhite · Apr 6, 2010

scoutcub said:
First of all, you must've realized you would start some arguing even though you specifically warned against it. I can see the hackles being raised thru out the comments. And obviously several people don't really read your stated post, where you disallow or make amends for certain criteria, they blindly read right thru it and see "us vs them" or you questioning the value of their mighty green or orange machine. At least I see a few unbiased responses in there.

I wanted to try and keep the biased opinions to a minimum in this thread, that's why I posted it that way. As you say, some people have blinders and there is nothing you can do about that, but I feel most comments have been pretty honest.

As you stated in your thread, you can find a EX450 w/loader for 17-18K. This is right around dealer price. I follow the prices and have seen them for sale. The same tractor with orange or green paint will be several thousand $$ more.

To be fair, I never said the EX450 was $17-18K w/FEL. I said an EX3200 was. I was quoted $20K for the EX450 w/FEL.

It simply boils down to personal preference, however you want to wrap/justify it. Kubota and JD are the easiest choices, because they have the most machines and dealerships out there. Many people are willing to pay more for the name, and reputation. Some are not.

I see that is very true. I was seriously looking at the CC line, but the thing that scares me is that they may go the way of the DoDo bird in a few years with the compact tractors and then what? On that note, please check your PM's.

MikePA · Apr 6, 2010

scoutcub said:
And obviously several people don't really read your stated post...

scoutcub said:
In all fairness, you would get more money out of a Kubota or JD if you sold it.

From the first post...

robertwhite said:
Other than resale and dealer attitude, what made you pick an Orange or Green over other brands? (if you shopped other brands).

scoutcub · Apr 6, 2010

MikePA said:
From the first post...

Ahhh someone does pay attention....you passed the test sir!!

Specop_007 · Apr 6, 2010

So where does everyone think Massey Ferguson rates these days? Up as a top tier brand?

Gittyup · Apr 6, 2010

I picked the other orange (Kioti) because most others simply didn't have anything that compared for what I wanted to do without spending thousands more, and many cases moving up a size. I wanted a small-to-midsize platform that had great lift specs front and rear, the most hydraulics flow, and the heaviest frame with some ground clearance. I chose the CK25 because there was nothing in it's class from anyone else: short, heavy, high, and strong hydraulics.

Kubotas: had to go to a grand L series or a B21/B26. Neither were in the same size and/or price range
John Deere: 790 was available, but doesn't spec as good and was a little dated. The 970 was close, but for a lot more money. And the 2500 series is just smaller all around.
New Holland: TC30 was more basic and cost more
TYM: 330 was a good option except the frame was a bit bigger and it cost more. The T273 was lighter in just about every spec.
Branson: Really good specs, but too big on the frame, and a tad outdated
Mahindra: Couldn't quite find a match without going up a size
MF: Without going up a size the 1500 series just didn't match up

Now on price, none of the "big names" even came close. Yes the "big names" command higher resale. But, I'll take my savings up front rather than later. $4000 now is worth a lot more than it will be 20 years down the road. Will I spend the savings on extra repairs? So, far in 4 years, I've spent $250 on repairs (really warranty travel costs). Only time will tell as to reliability and parts support.

The one thing I liked about Kioti is that they've been here for many years already. Thus, they've showed some staying power and commitment. I'm hoping they are like the Kubota of the 80's: Kubota who? Japanese tractors? What?

I own JD too. Is it better made? Only slightly, if at all. I would say that JD does the best job at engineering for the human being, designing and making (outsourcing) a lot of quality attachments that are super easy to attach and use. I don't see any of the others making things to the extent that JD does across the board for all its models. Is it better supported than the lesser names? On a national basis, there is no doubt. But does my local JD dealer provide any better support than my Kioti dealer? No. I'd actually say that the Kioti dealer tries harder. Goes to degree of hunger I suppose.

Even though I chose Kioti this time based on specs. Most of the time almost all makers have something that would fit a person's needs. It really does come down to personal preference. Buy the "big name" for the lowest risk, highest resale. Buy the others for the best short-term value but with more risk related to reliability and support. For me, sometimes it's worth it; other times it's not.