First time tractor buyer needs help

[newdeal]

Ok, so I have a 10 acre property, about half of that is where a horse pasture is (we have no horses) and the other 5 acres is grass. (about 2 acres of which is weeds because I don't have the time to cut it all which I hate). Currently I cut with a 38" craftsman riding mower and it takes a long time to do 3 acres of grass (usually I do the front yard one week and the back yard the next it takes so long). I decided that I would like to buy a small tractor, then I decided I would probobly make use of the backhoe also and so was looking at the Kubota BX25 and the Massey 2410. It seems to me like there is nothing that the Kubota is better at than the Massey, we have a dealer who is relatively nearby for both brands, with a 60" mmm the Kabota was quoted at around $18,000 plus tax cash or around $19,000 plus tax with 0% for 42 months. (I am in Canada so the don't compare the prices to what you pay in the US). The local dealer of the Masseys gave me a price on the 2410 with the mower at 21,000 plus tax cash or 23300 with 0% for 72 months. That seems like ahuge differance to me so I asked him if he competed with the prices of the kubota dealer and he said no (in more words). So I called a Massey dealer who is slightly further away (46 miles instead of 15 miles) and he doesn't have any 2410s, and says he can't get any, but he does have 2610s and said that the cash price of a 2610 with a mower would be $19,250! I read a bunch of posts saying to buy from a local dealer so you get good service and what not but that to me is a huge amount of money $1750 more for a slightly less expensive tractor). So I am confused on what to do, I would rather get the Massey than the Kubota, but I would also rather get locally than 46 miles away. To throw a wrench into things the local Massey dealer also has a used gc2310 for $16,900 including a mower deck. As you can tell price is very important to me however after reading about the tractors it seems like the 2410 is far superior to the 2310 (especially after watching the video on the massey site saying how the 2410 is better than the bx25 and the 2310 is similar to the bx25). Also of course the used machine would have no warranty (its a 2006 with 220 hours) and no cruise control which I think will be important because my front yard is around 400 feet long and the whole property is totally flat so cruise might make mowing a bit better. What do you think the best thing to do is?

 

[newdeal]

I just google mapped it, the closer massey dealer is a 45 minute drive and the further one is around an hour and a quarter, so not as much of a differance as I thought

 

[LBrown59]

Wonder why there are way more BX owners than GC owners?

 

[MFRED]

Wonder why there are way more BX owners than GC owners?

What kind of comment is that? Another useless post. Have you counted who owns what, or just talking out your smart end?
I bet there are more Cavalier owners than Corvette owners as well, doesn't mean squat.



I would buy a new machine with a warranty for the price difference. Ride & drive both, dig, turn , mow if you can. Buy from the dealer you feel the best about. An hours ride isn't that far around here, you may still get great service. Tell the closer dealer what's going on. If he can't get a tractor or transfer in one, that I wouldn't forsee them holding a grudge.

 

[newdeal]

If a dealer can transfer a tractor to another dealership then why would the cheaper guy tell me he couldn't get a 2410 I wonder (he has 3 2610s in stock he said, maybe he just wants to clear out his current stock?)

 

[mustangsallysdad]

I have one of each and prefer my Massey for it's better ergonomics, faster and smoother hydraulics, less plastic, etc. Also, I've never had an issue with CAT. 1 implements on my Massey, can't say the same about the Kubota. Both of mine have backhoes and the backhoe setup on the Massey is superior. The Kubota is plenty capable, however a little "quirky" on the above issues. I paid about the same for both brands and have over 1,700 hrs. on the MF and 1,230 hrs. on the Kubota. Both fine little machines but the Kubota has now been relegated to mowing duty almost exclusively.

 

[newdeal]

Thanks for the info. I didnt see too many (if any) areas where the kubota was better. They seem pretty equal in most regards with the Massey having a slight edge in a couple areas. I also researched the Deere but it was more expensive and they shut down their plant in the city I live in and moved the operation to Mexico putting alot of people out of work so Deere isn't even a real consideration it's pretty much just down to 2

 

[kevs500]

Where in Canada are we talking about?

 

[bmarian]

Hi Newdeal,

Welcome to the Massey Forum! You will find good information from the Massey owners here but be sure to ignore LBrown59. He has Massey envy and just posts and posts useless stuff generally. MFRED said it very well about LB "What kind of comment is that? Another useless post. Have you counted who owns what, or just talking out your smart end?"

I looked at all 3 brands of Tractor Loader Backhoe and had decided to buy the John Deere until I went to the Deere dealer and he showed me the Massey sitting next to the Deere. It is very apparent how much better made the Massey is and my Backhoe and Loader are made in USA! Maybe that is not as big a deal for a Canadian but...

The 2610 is a very nice tractor and there are a couple of advantages over the 2410. The extra horsepower is nice and the other advantage is the tractor hours are measured at a higher RPM so the warranty will last longer. For example if a 2410 and a 2610 were both running at 2000 RPM the hours display on the 2610 will move slower. Not a big advantage but if you use the tractor a lot your warranty will last longer on the 2610.

One thing to consider with the Massey financing is there is a required insurance policy (unless you get a binder from your insurance) that added about $ 1000.00 to the cost of my tractor over the 72 months. I was going to get a binder on my insurance but that would have cost me something too and the coverage on the Massey insurance (Chub Insurance Co.) is excellent, much better than the coverage I would have received from my insurance. If you pay off the tractor early they rebate the cost of the coverage in a prorated basis. In fact the coverage is so good that when I pay off my 2410 early I will keep a couple of payments until the very end so that I can keep the insurance.

You also need to consider the type of tires on the tractors, do you want Turf tires, R4's or bar lugs? You mentioned mowing so maybe the turfs or R4's would be good for you. I wanted bar lugs because I don't mow with my 2410.

Also, you might be able to reach an agreement with your dealer to pickup your tractor for service and warranty repairs. At least if you buy from the dealer a little farther away you should reach an agreement for a free or reduced cost service call.

Make sure you are comparing apples to apples with the tractors. The tire type will have a small effect on pricing and are the tires loaded? You are North of me in Canada so you might want to get a block heater in the deal, not a oil pan heater. The tractor has glow plugs but I have never used them even on the coldest (32F 0C) mornings here in southern California. But you will likely appreciate a block heater at some point in the winter.

I would definitely drive to both dealers and talk to them, the 2410 should be less expensive than the 2610 not vice versa. 30 minutes difference in time between the 2 dealers is a wash in my opinion, you will spend (waste) more time at either dealer just looking at accessories! But do visit both dealers in person and see how you are treated. Inquire about loaner tractors if yours is in for warranty work and there is a parts delay...the grass in the pasture keeps growing.

Also, go sit on the Kubota and try to lift the tractor off the ground with the loader and backhoe at idle. The difference in the engine speed needed to just pickup the front and rear of the tractor is amazing. I needed to run the Kubota at almost 2000 RPM to lift itself up. The Massey has no problem at idle. Check out how they feel to operate the backhoe controls, the Massey was silky smooth and the Kubota was less responsive and jerkier. Look at the cylinders that curl the loader bucket, another edge to the Massey. Look at the welds on the loader and backhoe, the welds on my tractor are very smooth and continuous.

You also should consider all the attachments you want for the Massey at once. The financing is good for everything you buy with the tractor. So if you are considering a box blade or snowthrower then you want to include it all in the 0%. I got the dealer to throw in a really nice Gearmore box blade with my tractor as the icing on the cake. Talk to the dealer and see if the insurance is a part of the financing, if so then the difference is really not that bad over the course of 6 years, it may not really be 0% financing since the sale price goes up but 7 or 8 percent over 6 years is pretty cheap in my book. My dealer said the financing cost him $ 400 or $ 500 but that was really not a big deal on a $ 17,250 USD purchase.

As a parting shot...Just buy the Massey, you will never regret operating a machine so smooth and easy to run. One item you need to watch is keeping the smile off your face when you have been out playing ...oops I mean working with the tractor. Your wife is bound to decide you and your new toy are having a little bit too much fun.

No Massey envy here,

Bruce

 

[newdeal]

Where in Canada are we talking about?

Niagara region in Ontario

 

[newdeal]

thanks for the info. I will definately go talk to both dealers. Another question I have about the 2610 is do you need to run it at 3000rpm when using the attatchments or can you run it at 2600rpm and treat it the same way as a 2410? Reason I ask is because I heard somewhere that to get the 2000rpms at the PTO the 2610 needs to be at 3000rpm and the 2410 at 2600rpm so obviously at 2600rpm the 2610 would be at less than 2000rpm on the PTO, does that make a differance?

 

[newdeal]

also I have pretty much decided on the R4 tires, I think it should be ok for my lawn I am not trying to win any lawn beauty pagents here I just want it to be shorter. I think the turf tires would be ok but I am worried because we do have some low lying areas that get a bit muddy at times so I would like to have some traction there at least.

 

[roger 4400]

also I have pretty much decided on the R4 tires, I think it should be ok for my lawn I am not trying to win any lawn beauty pagents here I just want it to be shorter. I think the turf tires would be ok but I am worried because we do have some low lying areas that get a bit muddy at times so I would like to have some traction there at least.

Hi Newdeal. Your R4 tires should not be hard on your lawn, your tractor is light (keep it on 2wd). They will be average in mud and R4 are a lot tougher than the turf tires. Concerning the 0% financing BEWARE.... I live in Quebec and just bought a new MF 1643 and there is a price to pay for your 0% financing.If you pay cash you could pay $1500 less or more. At a Kubota dealer the cash price was $4,500 less than the 0% financing.....so it is NOT a real 0% (it was the same at my MF dealer, the 0% price is higher than the cash price)). By the way I,m very proud to have my 1643, it is a very nice built tractor....and I use it for mowing also with R4 tires ( I had a 550 Oliver with used R1 tires and it was not hard on the turf so new R4 will be the same.) Have fun and be safe.Roger

 

[tsteahr]

The 2610 is a very nice tractor and there are a couple of advantages over the 2410. The extra horsepower is nice and the other advantage is the tractor hours are measured at a higher RPM so the warranty will last longer. For example if a 2410 and a 2610 were both running at 2000 RPM the hours display on the 2610 will move slower. Not a big advantage but if you use the tractor a lot your warranty will last longer on the 2610.

Bmarian,

Lots of good info in your post! About the hour meter on GC, I believe both models (and most current tractors) use a electronic hourmeter, not a mechanical (cable driven) hour meter. While the meter on the GC is analog (not a LCD), it is electrically driven. When the keyswitch is in the On position, the hour meter runs, regardless if the engine on actually running or not. Because the meter is electrically driven, I don't believe it receives any input (variable voltage) related to rpm, the hours accrue at the same rate regardless of engine speed.

I can add one other perspective on choosing between the 24x0 and the 26x0. Based on the manuals and my dealer, the two are virtually identical except for the engine speed at pto rpm. A perspective buyer needs to weigh the pros and cons of each before making a decision. Based on the GC manual the 24x0 is rated as 18.7hp@555pto rpm and the 26x0 is rated at 19.6hp@572pto rpm. The manual also specifies engine speed at 540 PTO rpm of 2532 vs 2829. This makes for about a 12% difference in engine speed for any given pto rpm.

So the trade off is the GC26x0 give you about 0.9 more pto hp but you will need to run a GC26x0 about 12% faster during any PTO operation to get a similar pto shaft speed as the GC24x0. The GC26x0 also provides about 9.5% more hydraulic flow (6.9gpm vs 6.3gpm) which might be useful if you every want to run something like a hydraulic log splitter with the Power Beyond.

One interesting point when I bought my machine. While the dealer recommended the GC2410 for my uses, he said if I ever needed the extra rpm of the 2600, he could change the 2400 to run at 2600 speed in about 10 minutes. He said the engines were identical except for the max speed at which they are set to.

For me the lower engine speed of the 2400 was worth the trade of 0.9pto hp. Since I run a pto backup generator, pto hp was a very important consideration, but it was not enough of a difference to overcome the higher rpms needed.

I agree with you 100%, either GC is a great machine. Buy one and be happy:thumbsup:

 

[newdeal]

Yes the finance price is higher due to the cost of the mower (if I get no financing the mower is free since it's a MF promotion). The problem is I don't have the cash in the bank to pay outright so either I put it on my line of credit which has 4.75% interest and try to pay it off before I paid more interest than the 0% financing cost me. It would probobly work out cheaper but with interest rates set to go up I can't be sure how high rates will be on my line of credit before I actually pay it off

 

[tsteahr]

thanks for the info. I will definately go talk to both dealers. Another question I have about the 2610 is do you need to run it at 3000rpm when using the attatchments or can you run it at 2600rpm and treat it the same way as a 2410? Reason I ask is because I heard somewhere that to get the 2000rpms at the PTO the 2610 needs to be at 3000rpm and the 2410 at 2600rpm so obviously at 2600rpm the 2610 would be at less than 2000rpm on the PTO, does that make a differance?

Hi Newdeal,

It can, it just depends. Take mowing for example. There can be times when you don't always need to mow at full power (rpm). If the grass it not to thick, if you aren't trying to go as fast as possible, the grass is bone dry etc. However you may need a certain amount of blade speed to get a decent cut. With the GC2400 you might be able to mow at say 2200 rpm while with the GC2600 you might need 2500rpm, not because you need power, but just to get the blade speed up.

I was faced with the same question when running the generator. The extra hp is nice to have, but it meant whenever I used the generator I had to run the tractor at the higher speed, the entire time. I have a suspicion fuel consumption may be a little lower at 2600 rpm as well, but I don't have any data.

On the other hand, the motor in the GC is very smooth and even at 2600rpm it feels like it has a lot more rpm in it. So it is not a problem to run it at the higher speed.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Newdeal have you considered changing your name to Useddeal.

Not sure what used equipment sells for in your area but down here $4K would buy you an good used tractor, 5' bush hog/finish mower and a 5-6' box blade by doing a little shopping.

Depreciation should be about ZERO over the next 3-5 years so you could then get your money back and buy based on your learned needs.

Buying used the first time can permit one to learn his needs and not get hit by depreciation doing it. It is just not as cool. Best of luck.

 

[bmarian]

Hi Tsteahr,

My 2410 has a mechanical tachometer and hourmeter. On page 29 of the tractror manual under the Tachometer and Hourmeter section the note says: ' Hours are calculated at 1800 rpm average for GC2400/GC2410 and at 2330 rpm average for GC2600/GC2610." That is a huge difference of 29.4% higher rpm for 1 hour on the GC26xx!

I think the 1800 rpm figure is correct for the 2400 series but I am very surprised at the 2330 rpm number for the 2600 series. There must be different gearing for the PTO drive on the 2 series since the engine must be run faster to get to the 540 or 2000 rpm speed on the 2600's.

It seems to me that the 2400 is better suited for your 10kw PTO generator since the lower rpm should mean less fuel consumption. But my 2410 is really easy on fuel and the engine is not fully broken in yet.

I am wondering if your tractor has a electronic tachometer or hourmeter. Maybe Massey made a change since mine was made early in 2008?

Bruce

 

[tsteahr]

Hi Bruce,

You are 100% correct. I was wrong to state the tach was electronic! I was confused with another machine I had. I checked my manual and it is just the same as your's. I agree with your point 100% that it is a big difference on the accumulation of hours between the two. Very interesting the 26x0 hours are based on being closer to pto speed, about 82% of pto speed vs. 71% for the 24x0. So your point is very valid, when running at pto speed, the 24x0 will clock hours at about 1.4 hours per actual hour of operation while the 26x0 will a clock hours at about 1.2 hours per actual hour of operation.

Sadly, for the warranty I will reach the 2 years long before the hours. Not enough seat time...

Thanks again for clearing up my mistake and sorting out the confusion :thumbsup:.

Tom

 

[LBrown59]

also I have pretty much decided on the R4 tires, I think it should be ok for my lawn I am not trying to win any lawn beauty pagents here I just want it to be shorter. I think the turf tires would be ok but I am worried because we do have some low lying areas that get a bit muddy at times so I would like to have some traction there at least.

Turf AGs R4s and Bar tires will tear up wet soft ground.