Property Taxes

[2manyrocks]

That's a very good description of the process.

Do you suppose the history books will record the destruction of ancient cities due to invasion of angry hordes and then record the destruction of modern cities as due to rampant property taxes?

 

[MossRoad]

That's a very good description of the process.

Do you suppose the history books will record the destruction of ancient cities due to invasion of angry hordes and then record the destruction of modern cities as due to rampant property taxes?

I think societies rise and fall since the beginning of human history for many reasons. The only constant is change. Just as Europe's dominance of us faded due to internal struggle, our dominance will fade some day, too because of the same things. We didn't learn from our past. Then another society will dominate for a period (probably the Chinese). Then Russia and China will duke it out for control of the eastern hemisphere and drag each other down while we sit here protected by the Bearing Straights, the North Atlantic and the pinch point between North and South America. Once we learn to control our population growth in North America and work with the Canadians and Mexicans we can be one happy isolated island. South America might want to play nice, too, but the Chinese are investing heavily there. It may be a lost cause. Once we curb our dependence on foreign oil, we will be a much better off country. We need to build a bunch of Nuke power plants, convert all homes and business to electricity and use the remaining oil to power long drives on electric hybrid cars and tractors (gotta keep it tractor related). Hey, I think I solved all our troubles in that paragraph.... except for the breakup up of the family structure. Someone else tackle that one. :laughing:

 

[buckeyefarmer]

That was a good description, it's just a big pyramid scheme. Our local government has grown and grown over the last 5-10 yrs because of all the housing growth in the area. Now the housing growth has slowed or about stopped, much of this is because of anti-growth policies and not the local economy or recession. However, the county govt doesn't want to downsize to reflect the new lower growth, they just want to raise taxes and keep the people they have, even though the work is no longer there.
You would think that with the slowdown in construction projects, that the county would approve things faster. Isn't the case, it's actually slower, as everyone is nit picking every little thing to try to show they are needed in the process.

 

[sodamo]

Property taxes - I just don't understand why they are allowed to exist as they do. A piece of property doesn't consume the so-called public services the taxes pay for, people do.

Consider:

A young couple, 2 kids, have a home assessed and taxed at $125K value.
An older couple, say in 50's, kids grown and on their own, have a home assessed and taxed at $500K value.

Is it logical to assume the older couple consumes 4 times the services? Are they likely to drive 4 times the miles on the municipal roads? Are they 4 times likely to require police and fire service?

Chances are, the young couple drives more miles, and consumes more services. And I am purposely leaving out the education/school aspect.

Seems there ought to be some sort of protection under some sort of "equality" or "equal protection" laws. Fat chance

David

 

[ultrarunner]

Property taxes - I just don't understand why they are allowed to exist as they do. A piece of property doesn't consume the so-called public services the taxes pay for, people do.

Consider:

A young couple, 2 kids, have a home assessed and taxed at $125K value.
An older couple, say in 50's, kids grown and on their own, have a home assessed and taxed at $500K value.

Is it logical to assume the older couple consumes 4 times the services? Are they likely to drive 4 times the miles on the municipal roads? Are they 4 times likely to require police and fire service?

Chances are, the young couple drives more miles, and consumes more services. And I am purposely leaving out the education/school aspect.

Seems there ought to be some sort of protection under some sort of "equality" or "equal protection" laws. Fat chance

David

The voters of CA answered that question with Prop 13... it limits automatic increases to 2%... of course voters can add additional taxes with a 2/3 approval or 55% in the case of school construction...

I looked at moving to the Big Island a few years ago... I found the property tax multifaceted with several different rates and the rates also varied if you were a permanent resident... decided it was too complicated and costly... lovely place... though.

 

[jinjimbob]

Property taxes - I just don't understand why they are allowed to exist as they do. A piece of property doesn't consume the so-called public services the taxes pay for, people do.

Consider:

A young couple, 2 kids, have a home assessed and taxed at $125K value.
An older couple, say in 50's, kids grown and on their own, have a home assessed and taxed at $500K value.

Is it logical to assume the older couple consumes 4 times the services? Are they likely to drive 4 times the miles on the municipal roads? Are they 4 times likely to require police and fire service?

Chances are, the young couple drives more miles, and consumes more services. And I am purposely leaving out the education/school aspect.

Seems there ought to be some sort of protection under some sort of "equality" or "equal protection" laws. Fat chance

David

IF all the people the people here have had or still have children, I would say it all evens out.

I think only when they do not have and never will children is when is very unfair.

After all, the education costs, the police costs of when everyone needs help or commits crime, the fire dept cost, etc.

IF the old people don't want to pay the taxes on items, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote yes on anything.

 

[dave1949]

For people in Maine, I learned of this just a couple days ago:

http://www.maine.gov/revenue/forms/property/pubs/bull21.pdf
http://www.maine.gov/revenue/forms/property/apps/openspaceapp.pdf

This is different than the Tree Growth program and not as restrictive. There are four categories undeveloped land can be placed in. Multiple categories can be applied to the same land, so it is possible to get up to a 95% reduction on property taxes for the land in the program if you can use all four categories.

You have to file by April 1st, so I missed it this year but plan on checking it out for next year.

Perhaps other states have similar programs, worth looking for at least.
Dave.

 

[tallyho8]

I have always felt that property taxes are the most unfair of all taxes and should be eliminated and replaced by higher income taxes.

In our area,when you earn $200,000 and pay income taxes and social security taxes on it and then gamble it away, or spend it on fancy restaurants and high living or buy a $200,000 diamond then you spend no more tax on the money.

But if you buy a home with it you are taxed the rest of your life. If you make enough money for a nice home while you are working and then pay off the mortgage and retire, you may find that the taxes are too high for you to keep your home and you must sell it and move to a cheaper low income location. What a way to end your days after you have worked your whole life to get your dream home.

At least income taxes tax you on money that you have. Property taxes tax you on things you bought with money you were already taxed on and no longer have.

 

[scootr2d]

I feel your pain.

Last year my little town in Vermont was required by the stste to do a twon wide reappraisal (sp). My property values went up 130% in just 10 years! My two adjoining neigbors values went up even more. And we all live on a private road that we maintian ourselves, with no help from the town.

The average increase for the rest of the town was 105%. We all appealed our increase stating that we felt we were asessed (sp) a "seclusion tax" since we all lived on a secluded private road off the beated path - of a small rural community! I eventually had my reappraisal lowered to 115%. Both my neighbors are still fighting and will wind up in court this summer.

The best part is, none of us have kids in the school, nor do any of us use any of the town's limited services. The police department doesn't know where I live. And our fire department - I'm a 20+ year member - is a volunteer department.

The biggest cost to our taxes is the frekin' schools. All of which are sub-standard, but the teachers have a great collective bargaining agreement. I'm a union member, so I won't bash any unions, but the school committe has to say enough is enough.

OK, I'll stop.

Both my wife and I love where we live and will just keep bitching, since we can't do anything else, and don't care to move.

Marc

Yep ..and our little piece of heaven Vermont made the number one spot on the most taxed state per capita in U.S even beating out Hawaii and California. California didn't even make the Top 10.

Here's the list

Forbes: Where Americans Are Taxed Most:
10. Pennsylvania
9. Wyoming
8. Washington
7. Massachusetts
6. New York
5. New Jersey
4. Minnesota
3. Connecticut
2. Hawaii

And the winner is
1. Vermont

California ranked 12th.


and we also made the bottom of the list for best states for Business
we came in 47th out of 50 , so we got that going for us as well Whoohoo !!! maybe next year if Gov Douglas et all in Montpelier , try really really hard we will make last place.

and with regards to the schools - interesting VT has one of the best teacher student ratio's in the U.S. but yet test scores nationally are on average and in some cases below other states. And where does all the monies go the lottery is suppose to collect for VT education?. It sure isn't being used to offset our taxes.

Bad thing about our education taxes is school tax is tied into our property Tax . So every year School taxes increase and our property taxes rise and people lose their homes cause they can't pay the property tax increase.

So let's summarize , Worst state for taxes , one of the worst for businesses, Businesses wont move in , companies layoff , school taxes increase yearly, raising property taxes yearly , students receive an average education, and VT families are being forced to leave the state ..

Yep I love my home state of Vermont. New Hampshire looking better all the time...

 

[brin]

I have always felt that property taxes are the most unfair of all taxes and should be eliminated and replaced by higher income taxes.

In our area,when you earn $200,000 and pay income taxes and social security taxes on it and then gamble it away, or spend it on fancy restaurants and high living or buy a $200,000 diamond then you spend no more tax on the money.

But if you buy a home with it you are taxed the rest of your life. If you make enough money for a nice home while you are working and then pay off the mortgage and retire, you may find that the taxes are too high for you to keep your home and you must sell it and move to a cheaper low income location. What a way to end your days after you have worked your whole life to get your dream home.

At least income taxes tax you on money that you have. Property taxes tax you on things you bought with money you were already taxed on and no longer have.

tallyho8 - I totally agree with you that property taxes are unfair..I really means even after we have paid for our houses we are still basically renting from the government or they will evict you with guns...Try not paying your taxes and the Sheriff shows up and they have guns..

Instead of a higher income tax, I suggest just add 2% or less to the local county sales tax and that way commuters, renters, tourists and all consumers help to shoulder the burden of all of the infrastructure they all use as much if not more than the ones who own property...It is a screwed up law.