The "Plasma Plunge" - Miller vs Thermal Dynamics

[Redneck in training]

Lostcause--- Make sure that you know which cutting speeds are being discussed. Normally, the IPM are advertised with a hand torch and not machine speeds, which normally are faster. It takes a big power unit to cut thick material with mechanized cutting. Otherwise, cut quality suffers.
Ever notice how while mowing grass, your cut quality sucks when you don't slow down for turns? Same thing with mech. plasma if the cutting speed isn't slowed down for curves and circles. There's a lot to consider.

Mute point. Machines will cut at the speed you program in them. They can go as fast or as slow as you want.

 

[fixit]

Hi all i would also put in my vote for a hypertherm
i have a powermax 30 for my portable work and is
a better machine than the miller that i used to
borrow before make me wonder why i put it off
so long to make the purchase
(must be the vise like grip on money i inherited from my mother):laughing::laughing::ashamed:

 

[lostcause]

first, let me apologize for hijacking spudland dave's post here. hopefully we can both get a little more information out of it, though most of my unknowns are in the cnc area, and i dunno if that is of any concern to him.

since we both live in the same state, i can agree with what he said about never having seen some of these brands. in the part of the state i live in, we have two major welding gas suppliers, and both of them seem to push a lot of miller and lincoln, even though i know they deal on other brands. most people in the private sector around here tend to own something in a red or blue case.

i think i'm narrowed down to the hypertherm powermax45 or the thermal dynamics cutmaster 52. i'm basing this on the theory that the bulk of the metal i work with is 1/2" or thinner, but having a machine capable of occasional 3/4" to 1" would be perfect. i also just wired my garage last year and i put in three dedicated 120/240 outlets - 30a@100%, 40a@100% and 50a@100%. since i wired the building with a 100a service, it's not really feasible to put in a cutter that requires a 100a breaker. that probably is an indication that it's more cutter than i need anyways.

i think my main concern now is the ability to turn the torch on & off via computer. most every site that sells cnc table parts advertises how they work with handheld torches, and i'd love to be able to do it that way, so i can pull the cutter out and use it as a handheld, or run it via computer. what i'm wondering is whether you can trigger them from the computer with a handheld torch, or whether that is part of the control harness when you use a machine torch? anyone know? i haven't found any good information on this yet.

 

[Jim in ICT]

Ladia, not exactly a mute point. The plasmas are generally rated in inches per minute with a hand torch. One reason you buy a cutting machine is to increase speeds. It's of little use to own a machine that cuts faster than your plasma will achieve. Yes, you can slow the machine down to the plasma's speed, but then the benefit$$$ of mechanization are not fully realized. I'm not going to argue engineering principles with you, as all I've done was sell the equipment.
Lostcause, there may be a handheld pendant that you can fire the plasma with. Go by your distributor and arm yourself with all the literature you can get, and it should be shown as an option. Also, the cutting thickness capacities of the plasmas will show a suggested through severance quality of cut. Suggested being a good clean cut at reasonable speeds, and severance cut being a rough, knarly cut at very slow speeds. You just need to look at the range and speeds you'll be cutting at most often.
By the way, did the OP ever say if he bought his plasma?

 

[lostcause]

Ladia, not exactly a mute point. The plasmas are generally rated in inches per minute with a hand torch. One reason you buy a cutting machine is to increase speeds. It's of little use to own a machine that cuts faster than your plasma will achieve. Yes, you can slow the machine down to the plasma's speed, but then the benefit$$$ of mechanization are not fully realized. I'm not going to argue engineering principles with you, as all I've done was sell the equipment.
Lostcause, there may be a handheld pendant that you can fire the plasma with. Go by your distributor and arm yourself with all the literature you can get, and it should be shown as an option. Also, the cutting thickness capacities of the plasmas will show a suggested through severance quality of cut. Suggested being a good clean cut at reasonable speeds, and severance cut being a rough, knarly cut at very slow speeds. You just need to look at the range and speeds you'll be cutting at most often.
By the way, did the OP ever say if he bought his plasma?

i think for anyone interested in a small cnc table (sub $10k) then speed isn't the critical issue, it's the complexity, precision, and quality that we can't get by hand. sure speed is good, but to me, being able to set a piece of plate on the table and have it do the rest is the key. also, i think any cnc table is going to be able to outperform any torch. even entry level tables seem to note speed capabilities in hundreds of inches per minute.

i've seen handheld pendants for some machines, but that's really not what i want. i'm fairly sure there's some way to totally automate at least some of the machines through software - i want the torch to fire on & off without me pushing the button. figuring out what options and parts are required, and what models support it is the hard part.

i don't want to knock the quality of the employees at the local dealers either, but the problem is that they are essentially salespeople, and not enthusiasts. many of them are trained to to know what they need, but any deviation from the norm may well be out of their league, unless they are the type to own and use their own equipment - cnc plasma from a portable torch is probably used by far less than 1% of the buyers. people who take the time to research and post on places like here are the ones who know the nuts and bolts of these things. same as buying a vehicle. generally an owner can tell you more about it than the person trying to sell it to you.

 

[Redneck in training]

Ladia, not exactly a mute point. The plasmas are generally rated in inches per minute with a hand torch. One reason you buy a cutting machine is to increase speeds. It's of little use to own a machine that cuts faster than your plasma will achieve. Yes, you can slow the machine down to the plasma's speed, but then the benefit$$$ of mechanization are not fully realized. I'm not going to argue engineering principles with you, as all I've done was sell the equipment.
Lostcause, there may be a handheld pendant that you can fire the plasma with. Go by your distributor and arm yourself with all the literature you can get, and it should be shown as an option. Also, the cutting thickness capacities of the plasmas will show a suggested through severance quality of cut. Suggested being a good clean cut at reasonable speeds, and severance cut being a rough, knarly cut at very slow speeds. You just need to look at the range and speeds you'll be cutting at most often.
By the way, did the OP ever say if he bought his plasma?

I assumed that for hobby speed is not the issue. The CNC table provides accuracy and consistency impossible to match by hand. If you want speed while cutting thick stuff then get bigger plasma cutter.

 

[yomax4]

Thermal Dynamics has a quick disconnect torch that allows you to quickly remove the machine torch, Throw on the hand held and cut. Nothing else to do. Simple. And, The 52 is 60 amps.
Good Luck.. :thumbsup:

 

[Spudland_Dave]

first, let me apologize for hijacking spudland dave's post here. hopefully we can both get a little more information out of it, though most of my unknowns are in the cnc area, and i dunno if that is of any concern to him.

No problem...Plasma talk is plasma talk...the shop I utilize has a large CNC table so I do the CAD work here and they cut it in the "scrap margins" when they run stuff on their table...

since we both live in the same state, i can agree with what he said about never having seen some of these brands. in the part of the state i live in, we have two major welding gas suppliers, and both of them seem to push a lot of miller and lincoln, even though i know they deal on other brands. most people in the private sector around here tend to own something in a red or blue case.

Bingo, to me that also translates to service & parts... by seeing hundreds of blue & red machines on a daily basis they have the parts in stock AND alot of questions are easily answered becuase they've usually seen it before. Yes they can get me another color machine but it will be a special order and special order means full MSRP.

By the way, did the OP ever say if he bought his plasma?

Nah, I havent pulled the trigger yet...Keeping a few bucks set aside for it, because I'd like to concentrate on building my shop this fall...add to the mix we have the first "family addition" due in July, I'm thinking I wont have the time to even USE my shiny new plasma...

 

[lostcause]

Thermal Dynamics has a quick disconnect torch that allows you to quickly remove the machine torch, Throw on the hand held and cut. Nothing else to do. Simple. And, The 52 is 60 amps.
Good Luck.. :thumbsup:

yeah, but my big question is how/where do you plug it into the computer/table controller so that the software can tell it to turn the torch on and off? the thermal dynamics and hypertherm units note their products as usable for automated torches, so they must be able to be driven by software - including arc on/off. i just wonder if this is able to be done on either brand with the hand torch without having to "hotwire" it.

 

[Dargo]

I assumed that for hobby speed is not the issue. The CNC table provides accuracy and consistency impossible to match by hand. If you want speed while cutting thick stuff then get bigger plasma cutter.

True. I have a HyperTherm 1250 and I'm not nearly as good as it is!

I almost forgot to mention, with good clean and dry air, I really almost never go through any consumables with my HyperTherm. I had another brand, I won't mention, and with the same air supply it seemed I always needed tips.

 

[yomax4]

TD has an inexpensive CNC Interface Module that the Interface cable screws onto. That enables the machine to get instructions from the CNC ie: Arc Start,Stop, OK to Move ect. It is very simple stuff. I am unsure about the Hypertherm. Go to the Thermadyne.com website and look up a Thermal Dynamics A40. It is an automation 60 amp unit that comes with a machine torch and is CNC ready. Then you can add a manual 1 torch for hand cutting. Good luck..

 

[Redneck in training]

NEW, 50amp Plasma Cutter,Seimens igbt,cuts to 1

Has anybody heard about Siemens plasma cutters or is it one of those to good to be true deals.

 

[kennyd]

NEW, 50amp Plasma Cutter,Seimens igbt,cuts to 1

Has anybody heard about Siemens plasma cutters or is it one of those to good to be true deals.

Looks like the same Chinese one that Horrible Fright and other companies sell with different colors...

 

[J_J]

yeah, but my big question is how/where do you plug it into the computer/table controller so that the software can tell it to turn the torch on and off? the thermal dynamics and hypertherm units note their products as usable for automated torches, so they must be able to be driven by software - including arc on/off. i just wonder if this is able to be done on either brand with the hand torch without having to "hotwire" it.

I believe some of the controllers use a relay to activate the start and stop. So if you have the schematic for the plasma cutter, find the wires going to the switch on the hand held torch, at the plug, and connect them to a double throw switch. Label the switch "C" for computer, and "H" for hand held mode.
If wired correctly, you should be able to switch from computer or hand held mode with the flip of a switch.

I believe there is also a time delay between the air start and stop, and for the the plasma cutting to commence.

 

[Scooby074]

Looks like the same Chinese one that Horrible Fright and other companies sell with different colors...

Yepp.. not built by siemens.. Available under many different names (clarke, chicago electric... etc)

the only thing siemens there are the transistors themselves. Everything else is Chicom.

Some say theyre not a bad value but the consumables can be expensive and hard to get. Theyres also problems with dealers going out of business or being hard to get help from.

Personally id stay away and get a better known brand.

Also some of those chinese models dont have High Frequency start, which makes cutting through paint and rust next to impossible without first cleaning off the contaminant

 

[yomax4]

Actually, None of the Big names have High Freq. Start anymore. No problems cutting Rust, Grease, Paint, Galv or Glass if prepped right. :thumbsup:

 

[Scooby074]

Actually, None of the Big names have High Freq. Start anymore. No problems cutting Rust, Grease, Paint, Galv or Glass if prepped right. :thumbsup:

I thought HF was still used by most? I guess contact start has taken over?

anyways, most of the cheapies dont have any assist for starting, which matters for dirty or painted metal, or cutting mesh

 

[AHNC]

I have a Hypertherm 380. Little machine, certainly not up to your needs. I live in MA and when I was ready to buy I went up to Hypertherm in Lebanon, told the fellow I was interested and he took me into the lab. Wow! Candyland! :laughing:

It was all there and operating. Very pleased with my 380. Good luck on your buy!

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I live in MA and when I was ready to buy I went up to Hypertherm in Lebanon, told the fellow I was interested and he took me into the lab. Wow! Candyland! :laughing:

It was all there and operating. Very pleased with my 380. Good luck on your buy!

Thanks....I thought about that...if Hypertherm or TD had an "outlet store" with scratch & dent or Reconditioned models, I probably would have taken a ride by now to pick one up. Plus like you said, actualy touching & feeling one makes a difference....

 

[yomax4]

TD has been making plasmas for 53 years in West Lebanon NH. Unsure about the other guys but I wonder where they came from being in the same small town and all.? TD has a 4yr warranty. I wonder why every one else only gives you a 3yr.Whyis TD $400 less for the same amps output? All Plasmas are good but don't forget to compare tit for tat..