Locust trees sprayed with 2,4d question

[thatguy]

I posted earlier about having locust trees sprouting up on a bank we had cleared last year.. I ended up spraying the trees with 2,4d which worked very well.. After a few hours the leaves would start to turn and within a week the trees are brown..

After 2 weeks now all the trees (some are 4' or so tall, but the stalk is about the size of a nickel) are completely brown and the leaves are falling off.. but I have a few questions:

Do you think the roots were killed as well?

Can I safely cut/mow these now or should I wait a while longer?

I am hoping that the roots are killed so they dont regrow next year..

thanks

Brian

 

[BruceWard]

I do not believe 2,4d will kill them. If it did I can not see the need for the much more toxic chemicals typically used.

I suggest cutting them and applying roundup to the stumps.

You can find some info here Robinia pseudoacacia - Bugwoodwiki

 

[BruceWard]

Even more info here

Black Locust | MDC

 

[om21braz]

Check out the link below as it details in depth herbicide use. Some of the chemicals are not over-the-counter products, but can be located.
Look at specifically pages 170-174 of the 174 pages.

http://ipm.ncsu.edu/agchem/8-toc.pdf

 

[Wooddust]

I have spent the last 20 plus years as a rangeland and brush control person full time so perhaps I can help you out with your question.

The locusts could be honey locust or black locust. The Honey Locusts have the gigantic thorns when more mature, Black have small one tip thorns only.

2,4-D will not kill the plants. At best you will see brown out and have the impression of success. But next spring they will be back, and if blacks, they will come back with a vengeance since they reproduce from seed as well as from root buds.

There are some excellent homeowner materials that will kill locusts. But there are a couple tricks to employ if you want to be successful.

First is timing. In your neck of the woods, locusts will be most easily killed with a foliar application in mid July on through the end of August. Spraying earlier will provide mixed results to no results.

Look for products containing triclopyr. That is the active ingredient in Crossbow, Remedy, Garlon. For homeowners its easy to use, will not hurt grass and will kill locusts.

If you choose to cut the trees, treat the cut stump with Tordon RTU. Roundup as a cut stump treatment is very unpredictable and on locust is really not worth your time or effort.

there are other methods that I use in my commercial spray business but this is probably the best option for your situation.

Good luck and stay after them, they are a persistant invader.

 

[smstonypoint]

Wooddust,

I've used Crossbow and appreciate its effectiveness. I am curious as to why it and other herbicides containing triclopyr seem so expensive. Is there a patent involved?

Steve

 

[Wooddust]

Its more than that, no it is no longer patented.

Look at any herbicides concentration. For example, Garlon4 and remedy are 4 pounds per gallon of active ingredient. When I spray Remedy for example on sericea lespedeza, I use 1.5 pints per acre. The cost then is not so bad for area covered.

Crossbow contains 2,4-D and triclopyr. Its specific use is for smaller areas, do it your selfers and farmers who don't need 2.5 gallons of each and the mixing issues. its higher cost but you pay for the convenience.

Ortho products sold in the big box stores are far more diluted and are homeowner use materials. Sometimes I wonder how they work but I also understand the average homeowner has zero understanding of his or her spray rate and they likely soak the dickens out of what they want to kill.

 

[smstonypoint]

Its more than that, no it is no longer patented.

Look at any herbicides concentration. For example, Garlon4 and remedy are 4 pounds per gallon of active ingredient. When I spray Remedy for example on sericea lespedeza, I use 1.5 pints per acre. The cost then is not so bad for area covered.

Crossbow contains 2,4-D and triclopyr. Its specific use is for smaller areas, do it your selfers and farmers who don't need 2.5 gallons of each and the mixing issues. its higher cost but you pay for the convenience.

Ortho products sold in the big box stores are far more diluted and are homeowner use materials. Sometimes I wonder how they work but I also understand the average homeowner has zero understanding of his or her spray rate and they likely soak the dickens out of what they want to kill.

Thanks. I paid $160ish for my last 2.5 gallons of Crossbow. I have been using a 2% solution (2 ounces/gallon). I need to check on Remedy and Garlon prices and their labels to see whether they may be more cost effective for me.

Steve

 

[thatguy]

What i used was 'gordons brush no more it' contained 2,4D 2,4DP-p and Dicamba.. I will need to see whether they are honey or black locust as well - i really have no idea..

My biggest problem is that its pretty hard to coat stump because the are less less than size of a quarter (and most are more like a dime size)..

I do have another bottle of week killer that has Triclopyr as the main ingredient.. I will mix some of that up and spray them again..

thanks for all the advise and links

b

 

[thatguy]

Can i safely mix the Gordons Brush no more (2,4D, 2,4DP-p, and Dicamba) and the Ortho Chickweed Killer (Triclopyr) together in the same 1 gallon sprayer?

I was using 6oz/gal for the Gordons (it could be mixed anywhere from 2 to 8 oz per gal - per instructions) and the Ortho is 1oz/gal of water

brian

 

[om21braz]

The link I posted above notes mixing of 2-4D with Remedy (triclopyr) for foilage treatment of woody plants. I'll not post the rate as I might incur a typo

 

[teg]

My biggest problem is that its pretty hard to coat stump because the are less less than size of a quarter (and most are more like a dime size)..

I use a small paint brush - mixed with diesel in a jar. (how large of an area or how many trees are we talking about again???)

I do have another bottle of week killer that has Triclopyr as the main ingredient.. I will mix some of that up and spray them again..

If the plants are brown like you said... I would wait and treat the re-growth. You *might* get by with a basal stem treatment, but I would not do it - you might be wasting time and chemical.

 

[thatguy]

The link I posted above notes mixing of 2-4D with Remedy (triclopyr) for foilage treatment of woody plants. I'll not post the rate as I might incur a typo

thanks.. Due to work commitments I havent gotten a chance to read that yet, but Ill do it today..


b

 

[waxahachie]

Martins CLEAR PASTURE. Active ingredient is Triclopyr. Clear pasture is a generic of the comparable DOW product for half the price. Is made in Pasadena, Texas. It works greats.
Also check out BRUSH BUSTERS Program on internet. Tells you how to get rid of most problem plants. Info is provided by Mr. McGinty of Texas A&M.

 

[thatguy]

The link I posted above notes mixing of 2-4D with Remedy (triclopyr) for foilage treatment of woody plants. I'll not post the rate as I might incur a typo

I sorta/kinda think I found it, but I dont know what percentage the mix they are using is.. So I will just mix it per instructions for each..


BUT, Can i safely mix the two weed killers together in the same sprayer without blowing myself up or having something bad happen??

brian

 

[MarkV]

I have spent the last 20 plus years as a rangeland and brush control person full time so perhaps I can help you out with your question.

The locusts could be honey locust or black locust. The Honey Locusts have the gigantic thorns when more mature, Black have small one tip thorns only.

2,4-D will not kill the plants. At best you will see brown out and have the impression of success. But next spring they will be back, and if blacks, they will come back with a vengeance since they reproduce from seed as well as from root buds.

There are some excellent homeowner materials that will kill locusts. But there are a couple tricks to employ if you want to be successful.

First is timing. In your neck of the woods, locusts will be most easily killed with a foliar application in mid July on through the end of August. Spraying earlier will provide mixed results to no results.

Look for products containing triclopyr. That is the active ingredient in Crossbow, Remedy, Garlon. For homeowners its easy to use, will not hurt grass and will kill locusts.

If you choose to cut the trees, treat the cut stump with Tordon RTU. Roundup as a cut stump treatment is very unpredictable and on locust is really not worth your time or effort.

there are other methods that I use in my commercial spray business but this is probably the best option for your situation.

Good luck and stay after them, they are a persistant invader.

Great post Wooddust, welcome to the forum. Information, especially with brush control is so regional, do you mind sharing what part of the country your expertise is in?

We are about to have 68 acres of timber cut and are looking at brush control methods for the next few of years. Mostly pine in our area with a lot of what we call "privet" growing after a cut. It is an invasive species here. Any suggestions?

MarkV

 

[thatguy]

BTW - after looking closer at some mature trees, these are Black Locust..

brian

 

[Wooddust]

Can i safely mix the Gordons Brush no more (2,4D, 2,4DP-p, and Dicamba) and the Ortho Chickweed Killer (Triclopyr) together in the same 1 gallon sprayer?

I was using 6oz/gal for the Gordons (it could be mixed anywhere from 2 to 8 oz per gal - per instructions) and the Ortho is 1oz/gal of water

brian

Brian, thats a tough one not knowing how much triclopyr is in the chickweed poop. If you can do the math, IF we were using Remedy that has 4 pounds of triclopyr per gallon, we would mix it at a 2% dilution in water. In other words 98 gals of water would have 2 gal Remedy....now, try to come up with the mix that resembles that or go to the local farm store and buy a quart of crossbow.

 

[Wooddust]

Great post Wooddust, welcome to the forum. Information, especially with brush control is so regional, do you mind sharing what part of the country your expertise is in?

We are about to have 68 acres of timber cut and are looking at brush control methods for the next few of years. Mostly pine in our area with a lot of what we call "privet" growing after a cut. It is an invasive species here. Any suggestions?

MarkV

MOst of my work was done in the midwest and west from Missouri to the west coast. But I have a ton of additional experience and work that I still do in a research capacity. I may not have the answer at my fingertips but probably can steer you in the right direction.

Privet is a bear. Auburn University is recommending basal treatments with Remedy. 20-25% Remedy in 75-80% Diesel. You will love this...you spray the lower stem from ground up 12-15 inches. Its deadly effective but if you have a lot of privet, thats a lot of work. The good news is you can do it 12 months a year. Basal has the added benefit of not hurting other plants in the area.

Roundup can be uses but its 3% or 3 gallons per hundred foliar only applied only in winter. Plus it will smoke other plants and can hurt conifers even foliar in winter.

 

[rkpatt]

Generic herbicide similar to Crossbow -

Crossroad Brush Killer (1 Gallon) - Generic Replacement for Crossbow America's Farm & Home Store