Rotating seat for backhoe use?

[Ken P]

Folks - In looking for my first tractor, I've noticed that the Kubota's have a rotating seat for using the backhoe. Do any others have this feature, and for those that have it, how useful is it?

Storage space is going to be a real problem for me - I'd like to be able to store whatever I get in the garage, but space is tight. If the rotating seat works well and really does lessen the overall length of the tractor, it might be a real plus.

Thanks -

Ken in North Granby, CT

 

[Lt CHEG]

Storage space is going to be a real problem for me - I'd like to be able to store whatever I get in the garage, but space is tight. If the rotating seat works well and really does lessen the overall length of the tractor, it might be a real plus.

Thanks -

Ken in North Granby, CT

Based upon that statement I believe that you are essentially comparing two different styles of backhoe. The backhoes that have an additional rear facing seat are generally backhoe attachments that go onto a tractor. Backhoes like the Kubota M59 for example are basically more dedicated TLB's (Tractor, Loader, Backhoe). Even though the M59 for example can detach the backhoe and use 3 point hitch implements it really is a different animal (and a fair amount more expensive) than say a Kubota 4240 or a New Holland Boomer with subframe backhoes attached. I believe just about all of the subcompact tractors have a way to flip over the seat so as to use it with a backhoe attachment because there is not enough room to have a swivel seat and a backhoe attachment with the seat attached would probably put too much weight too far behind the tractor. If you are going to use the tractor primarily for digging then a dedicated TLB may very well be a great investment for you. However if you plan on using the tractor more for mowing, tilling, plowing, with occasional use for digging reasonable depths and reasonable size areas then my guess is you could probably accomplish all those things with a standard compact or subcompact tractor with a collection of implements including a subframe backhoe for less money than what a dedicated true TLB would cost.

Oh and to answer your question about swivel seats, they do come in handy. I've used full size bachoes (Ford and NH 555's and NH LB75.B) that had swivel seats and I found it to work better than a flip over seat. They are especially handy if you have to reposition the unit a lot.

 

[BruceWard]

I occasionally use the backhoe of my B21 by turning sideways in the seat without rotating. Doing so for long periods of time starts to stretch stomach muscles and becomes painful. I am much more efficient digging when I am comfortably rotated. In my opinion the ability to rotate or flip the seat is very important.

I believe some larger TLBs allow you to rotate the seat while seated. I dismount the tractor, rotate the seat then climb in the rear facing seat.

 

[CurlyDave]

I believe some larger TLBs allow you to rotate the seat while seated. I dismount the tractor, rotate the seat then climb in the rear facing seat.

And here I though that flipping over the seat in my JD 110 TLB was a PITA. At least I can do that without dismounting, but then climbing over the seat I just flipped is a real adventure.

 

[Lt CHEG]

I should mention that in the full size backhoes that I used with swivel seats, you were able to remain seated while you swiveled around in all of them. From the looks of it you may have enough room to do so on the Kubota M59 as well.

 

[Ken P]

I appreciate the responses. I meant that the swivel seat would be a plus for Kubota vs the other brands; I am looking at CUTs only. It wasn't clear to me from the other manufacturer websites that their seats rotate. It looked from pix that I saw that the backhoes mostly came with an extra seat. Do all the CUT-class seats rotate, or is it brand-specific?

Apologies in advance for showing my newbie-ness-

Ken

 

[BruceWard]

Ken,

I believe that most 3 point mounted backhoes have a rear facing seat built into them as they do not expect the tractor to have a rotating seat.

Here is an example

Some TLBs have frame or submounted backhoes. This is an example of a Kubota B21

The frame mounted backhoes are much more securely mounted. Personally I prefer a frame mounted backhoe. I have read several stories of cracked rear ends from using 3 point mounted backhoes. Using a backhoe places huge stresses on the tractor, the FEL and the backhoe mount points. I a worst case scenario part of the 3 point linkage might fail and allow the backhoe to tilt either throwing or crushing the operator.

I suggest the advantage is not that the seat swivels but that a TLB designed to have a backhoe typically has a much stronger backhoe mount. An additional advantage may be that the TLB was designed to have the correct hydraulic flow to operate the backhoe.

In this picture I have circled the four attachment points for the B21 backhoe. You can see that they are much stronger than the 3 point hookup seen above.

How are you going to use your tractor? My B21 would not be very good hauling hay or bush hogging hundreds of acres but it is much better than our farm tractors at clearing roads, digging trenches and moving dirt.

 

[ChuckinNH]

The newer, smaller backhoe set ups on Kubota's do use swiveling seats. I'm talking here about the BX, and B series tractors. I think it does help keep the backhoe more compact, closer to the tractor for better balance, and leverage. A side benefit would be the reduction in storage space required. JD, and other brands are still using separate seats on their sub frame mounted backhoes.

 

[JoelD]

I personaly would not make the swivel or non swivel seat a major part of my decision making process.

For example, my backhoe is frame mounted, very similar to Kubota, but I have a separate seat.

Would be surprised if my machine is much if any longer due to the separate seat.

Decision must first be based on capacities and the like, if dimensions are good but capability is not there then you are stuck with a machine that will not suit your needs.

Joel

 

[Ken P]

I think I'm getting the idea now. I wasn't intending to use the seat as a huge point, but it will make my life easier if the tractor is a bit shorter, so if all else was equal, I thought that the second seat might make some difference to a decision.

Bruce, I intend to use the tractor for a variety of landscaping stuff, kind of a little of everything. I picture using the backhoe to dig holes for planting trees, to dig out unwanted stuff (like invasive vine roots), and so forth. Basically, to do the sort of things I might be able to do by hand if I was 25 years younger and had a LOT more free time and didn't care if my back hurt for 2 weeks afterwards. Thanks for the pix, that helped a lot.

Ken

 

[jenkinsph]

Ken,
You might measure the height of the door opening too as this may be a limiting factor if you must store inside.

 

[Big Wave D]

I have a 1991 Kubota L-35. It has the factory swivel seat.

All in all, it has its pluses and minuses. I like not having another seat that will eventually need replacing. Also, I don't have two seats trying to take up the same space.

However, on my TLB it is MUCH easier to be off the machine to manipulate the two levers needed to allow the seat to be moved into position and swiveled. Since, I'm already off the tractor, climbing backhoe for use is no big deal.

Don't know about Kubota B Series TLB's, but the newer L and M's were redesigned as "walk-through" so that use of the backhoe didn't necessitate dismounting and walking around.

 

[Grandad4]

One of the great advantages of the mini-excavator vs. a tractor mounted backhoe is the operator can stay in one seat to re-position the unit. Both have relatively short reach when digging - 5 to 10 feet, usually, from the machine itself. So you are constantly moving/repositioning the unit to dig further. But the mini-ex lets you immediately go from digging to moving the unit, while the tractor requires that you do something to change where/how you sit each time you have to stop digging and move the tractor a few feet.

With many tractor backhoes, you can step from one seat to the other without dismounting the tractor. It's a bit harder than flipping or swivelling a single seat, but it can be done (unless it's a cab tractor, I suppose). If the backhoe is on an HST machine, it's possible to use a broomstick or something to operate the go pedal from the BH seat, allowing you to creep a few feet, such as when digging a trench. But, if any tractor or backhoe manufacturer ever came up with a better and safer approach to moving a backhoe-epuipped tractor short distances without flipping or changing seats or using broomsticks, etc., they would probably attract pleny of buyers.

 

[jenkinsph]

One of the great advantages of the mini-excavator vs. a tractor mounted backhoe is the operator can stay in one seat to re-position the unit. Both have relatively short reach when digging - 5 to 10 feet, usually, from the machine itself. So you are constantly moving/repositioning the unit to dig further. But the mini-ex lets you immediately go from digging to moving the unit, while the tractor requires that you do something to change where/how you sit each time you have to stop digging and move the tractor a few feet.

With many tractor backhoes, you can step from one seat to the other without dismounting the tractor. It's a bit harder than flipping or swivelling a single seat, but it can be done (unless it's a cab tractor, I suppose). If the backhoe is on an HST machine, it's possible to use a broomstick or something to operate the go pedal from the BH seat, allowing you to creep a few feet, such as when digging a trench. But, if any tractor or backhoe manufacturer ever came up with a better and safer approach to moving a backhoe-epuipped tractor short distances without flipping or changing seats or using broomsticks, etc., they would probably attract pleny of buyers.

The Deere 110tlb with Laurin cab allows me to stay in the backhoe seat and has the creep to reposition switches within easy reach. I find this has worked very well for me. Can't imagine having to change seat positions to move the tractor up and down a ditchline. I frequently move the tractor around the yard from the rear seat position.

 

[Big Wave D]

My Kubota has the Glide Shift Transmission and this allows me to stay in the seat with it facing the rear/backhoe.

The ability to not need the clutch to change gears and use the shuttle shift to stop and go makes quick work out of moving to next digging position.

 

[Lt CHEG]

One of the great advantages of the mini-excavator vs. a tractor mounted backhoe is the operator can stay in one seat to re-position the unit. Both have relatively short reach when digging - 5 to 10 feet, usually, from the machine itself. So you are constantly moving/repositioning the unit to dig further. But the mini-ex lets you immediately go from digging to moving the unit, while the tractor requires that you do something to change where/how you sit each time you have to stop digging and move the tractor a few feet.

With many tractor backhoes, you can step from one seat to the other without dismounting the tractor. It's a bit harder than flipping or swivelling a single seat, but it can be done (unless it's a cab tractor, I suppose). If the backhoe is on an HST machine, it's possible to use a broomstick or something to operate the go pedal from the BH seat, allowing you to creep a few feet, such as when digging a trench. But, if any tractor or backhoe manufacturer ever came up with a better and safer approach to moving a backhoe-epuipped tractor short distances without flipping or changing seats or using broomsticks, etc., they would probably attract pleny of buyers.

I wouldn't do it with a compact tractor mounted backhoe but on a real designated TLB you can reposition yourself somewhat without getting out of the seat. You can actually use the hoe to push yourself up and back or even slightly to the side. You should be able to reach the loader control without moving, so you raise the lower just off the ground and do the same with the outriggers and then push yourself up and back or up and to the side. Sure it's not quite as simple as a mini excavator but it is done often by good operators, even I taught myself how to do it on a Ford 555.

 

[Grandad4]

Thanks for the education, guys. The creep function found on the dedicated TLB's is exactly what I was thinking of. I'm thinking it would be a popular factory option with the add-on BH's also. There are plenty of owners like me that don't need/can't afford a dedicated TLB, but still have the re-positioning issue when using an add-on BH.

 

[BruceWard]

On my B21 I can reach the steering wheel and loader control easily while rear facing. I have trenched over 1200' of 30" + deep trench with it. I normally have the transmission in neutral and use the backhoe to move the tractor around while trenching.

I was digging some 5' deep trench to run electrical conduit under a hill that will later be removed at church yesterday. I knew the trench was going to drop to 7' as I worked along to maintain grade and the softest material in the trench was shale. I called a friend who sent over a CAT 426 (15,400 pound 110HP) backhoe. I used the CAT 426 the same as the Kubota pushing it forward with the backhoe boom. Interestingly it had a swivel seat but no ability to swivel while seated. I had to stand up, swivel the seat then climb around it.

A mini excavator would be much better for gardening purposes. It can reposition and be ready to work so much faster than a TLB. If was spending the budget for a new TLB I would rather buy a used minix and a tractor with a loader.

 

[CurlyDave]

The Deere 110tlb with Laurin cab allows me to stay in the backhoe seat and has the creep to reposition switches within easy reach. I find this has worked very well for me. Can't imagine having to change seat positions to move the tractor up and down a ditchline. I frequently move the tractor around the yard from the rear seat position.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I do the same thing. A few hours of experience and it works great.

I have heard that some L39 owners push the throttle with a cane...

 

[Runner]

I kind of like having a separate seat on the 2520. When I want to reposition the machine, I just step from the backhoe platform onto the left rear tire, then onto the operator platform. Both seats stay in the down position and I don't have to mess with swivelling a seat. Works good for me anyway.