jpm
Platinum Member
i'm glad someone pick up on that :thumbsup:
My wife's chickens are official taxpayers
- Thread starter Mike Costello
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buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
Contrary to what the county will say about safety, permits are all about collecting money, from the permit fee's themselves to the assessment on the finished products. Government is a giant pyramid scheme. THey keep passing more and more laws to make you pay more, so they need to hire more and more people to enforce and collect on the laws, so they need more and more money.. and the cycle keeps going. Government at all levels needs to realize they need to reduce as peoples' income has reduced. One of our just elected county officials had this in his flyers, Should we really have to pay a $75 electrical permit fee to hook up a $60 garbage disposal? If we reduce or eliminate permits for the everyday simple things, we don't need to pay so many county employees to drive around to look at a couple wire nuts in a box just so they can say it's safe, which they really don't look at anyways.
Ductape
Elite Member
I'm wondering if you could explain this a bit better. You are claiming that if my town discovers my neighbor has a new chicken coop on his property and taxes him accordingly, my taxes go down ????
I didn't think so.
The government just ends up with more money to waste. :confused2::confused2:
jimmyj
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I get what you are trying to say Loren, and I also think that the majority of TBN members are pretty law abiding community minded folks. I don't mind paying taxes (and I pay A LOT) of taxes trust me. But, I hate the hand of administration getting into my stuff. I know that one day it might be a problem for me, but I have built many buildings, added electrical, put in a septic system, renovated my house and more and more and more without any permits. I just refuse to play that game.
All that said, my taxes if they ever come to check our place out will probably go up by $3000 or more based on what my neighbors pay (my buddy's wife is so by the rules they get permits even to build a deck on the house). I figure that I have already saved over $20,000 in taxes by not getting permits and that's a lot of dough.
For the record I give money to charity every month, I volunteer for stuff and heck we even donated the trees for the local park to the town horticultural society. We are proud of that but to the OP's point, taxing my chicken coop would really peeve me off.
All that said, my taxes if they ever come to check our place out will probably go up by $3000 or more based on what my neighbors pay (my buddy's wife is so by the rules they get permits even to build a deck on the house). I figure that I have already saved over $20,000 in taxes by not getting permits and that's a lot of dough.
For the record I give money to charity every month, I volunteer for stuff and heck we even donated the trees for the local park to the town horticultural society. We are proud of that but to the OP's point, taxing my chicken coop would really peeve me off.
OP
Mike Costello
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To expand that thought further, you're right, taxing a chicken coop does bring in more money; but does nothing for other taxpayers of great value. Now, if the govt. lowered their overhead in a significant way, as many of us have had to do, it would create credible gains (such as tax reduction) for the general good of the residents within their jurisdiction. We know, however, that concept is lost on most govts.
MikeInEburg
Veteran Member
Well, I'm wearing my suit of armor, so here goes...
We all get incensed when hearing about big corporations that don't pay their fair share of taxes. In the end, the little guy pays more. Well, many of the respondents to this thread are essentially admitting to acting like the big corporations. Like it or not, most local jurisdictions collect property taxes based on property value. If someone illegally enhances their property value (by not getting a permit, etc), we ALL end up paying more.
Don't get me wrong, we all want lower taxes. And we all want good schools, and the snow plowed five minutes after it starts falling, and roads with no imperfections and bridges that aren't crumbling and police to catch the folks who dump garbage on our road and clean air and water. We want to build things the way that we want, regardless of the potential hazard to the next unsuspecting owner. We want it all and want someone else to pay for it...
Mike
We all get incensed when hearing about big corporations that don't pay their fair share of taxes. In the end, the little guy pays more. Well, many of the respondents to this thread are essentially admitting to acting like the big corporations. Like it or not, most local jurisdictions collect property taxes based on property value. If someone illegally enhances their property value (by not getting a permit, etc), we ALL end up paying more.
Don't get me wrong, we all want lower taxes. And we all want good schools, and the snow plowed five minutes after it starts falling, and roads with no imperfections and bridges that aren't crumbling and police to catch the folks who dump garbage on our road and clean air and water. We want to build things the way that we want, regardless of the potential hazard to the next unsuspecting owner. We want it all and want someone else to pay for it...
Mike
jimmyj
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No need for amor Mike LOL :laughing:
But I don't get you when you say....
If someone illegally enhances their property value (by not getting a permit, etc), we ALL end up paying more.
How? I'm not being smart aleckey, I just don't know how? The taxes in my area don't go up for anyone else because I build a barn without a permit. And when taxes do go up for everyone by X%, mine do too. In one way it's the permit and rules I hate almost more than the dollars.
But I don't get you when you say....
If someone illegally enhances their property value (by not getting a permit, etc), we ALL end up paying more.
How? I'm not being smart aleckey, I just don't know how? The taxes in my area don't go up for anyone else because I build a barn without a permit. And when taxes do go up for everyone by X%, mine do too. In one way it's the permit and rules I hate almost more than the dollars.
BKBrown
Gold Member
Like most people, I have no objection to taxes being spent by government (local, state, federal) for essential needs of everyone and to help those who are mentally or physically not capable of working. I do object to unnecessary expendatures and supporting those who are just too lazy to do any work.
Our (personal property) taxes on vehicles and trailers just went up this year. The estimated value of vehicles actually went up even when they are a year older and have more miles on them. (my truck's value is higher this year than last year) and even at the same rate / $100 the tax is higher. When asked to clarify they could not answer why, but said they aren't adjusting it. This matter is not over YET !
Did you ever hear of a relatively new vehicle being worth more this year than last ? It isn't called depreciation for nothing !
Our (personal property) taxes on vehicles and trailers just went up this year. The estimated value of vehicles actually went up even when they are a year older and have more miles on them. (my truck's value is higher this year than last year) and even at the same rate / $100 the tax is higher. When asked to clarify they could not answer why, but said they aren't adjusting it. This matter is not over YET !
Did you ever hear of a relatively new vehicle being worth more this year than last ? It isn't called depreciation for nothing !
OP
Mike Costello
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There was a time when getting a permit to build something had a purpose, which was to make sure your construction was ultimately safe and sound. It also insured to some degree that a buyer of property could reasonably rely on what he purchased. Now, the permit process is more like a money getter. You apply for a permit, and the first thing the building dept. does is forward a copy to the assessors dept. Safe and sound--what's that?
Loren49
Platinum Member
Ductape- (first want to say I like your user name - assume you can fix anything 
) The way property tax works - the total needed revenue amount is divided by the total assessed value. As an example - if assessed value of an area goes from $40,000,000 to $44,000,000 and the budget calls for $200,000 in revenue then the tax rate goes from $5.00 per $1000 assessed value to $4.55 per $1000 assessed value. If my property value was not changed when the under assessed properties were found then my taxes go down. The revenue does not increase because your property assessment is raised. Bottom line - if chicken coop is assessed as real property the revenue does not increase and you taxes are less than if it wasn't on the tax roll - if it is personal property and it is taxed (like a tractor) then revenue goes up. I assumed it was being taxed as real property.
A personal property tax system does have an increase whenever more property is identified - same with sales tax as sales increase.
I also would disagree with the claim that all permitting is just a money grab. Much of the zoning laws are there because of complaints of residents in regards to the appearance, the perceived effect on property values, etc. Often the fees do not cover the costs to the town to do this. Would you complain if I opened a 24 hr business about 10 feet from your property line - or maybe a junkyard - or maybe an open manure pit. I'm on a Town Board - people complain - sometimes very loudly!
Loren
PS-I may be guilty of not always getting a required permit - but I stand on the 5th Ammendment
) The way property tax works - the total needed revenue amount is divided by the total assessed value. As an example - if assessed value of an area goes from $40,000,000 to $44,000,000 and the budget calls for $200,000 in revenue then the tax rate goes from $5.00 per $1000 assessed value to $4.55 per $1000 assessed value. If my property value was not changed when the under assessed properties were found then my taxes go down. The revenue does not increase because your property assessment is raised. Bottom line - if chicken coop is assessed as real property the revenue does not increase and you taxes are less than if it wasn't on the tax roll - if it is personal property and it is taxed (like a tractor) then revenue goes up. I assumed it was being taxed as real property.A personal property tax system does have an increase whenever more property is identified - same with sales tax as sales increase.
I also would disagree with the claim that all permitting is just a money grab. Much of the zoning laws are there because of complaints of residents in regards to the appearance, the perceived effect on property values, etc. Often the fees do not cover the costs to the town to do this. Would you complain if I opened a 24 hr business about 10 feet from your property line - or maybe a junkyard - or maybe an open manure pit. I'm on a Town Board - people complain - sometimes very loudly!
Loren
PS-I may be guilty of not always getting a required permit - but I stand on the 5th Ammendment
