My wife's chickens are official taxpayers

[Mike Costello]

Raising personal property taxes on a vehicle that is one year older and HAS depreciated in value is nothing more than a stealth tax. It's designed that way because most people would never look for it.

 

[MikeInEburg]

No need for amor Mike LOL :laughing:

But I don't get you when you say....

If someone illegally enhances their property value (by not getting a permit, etc), we ALL end up paying more.

How? I'm not being smart aleckey, I just don't know how? The taxes in my area don't go up for anyone else because I build a barn without a permit. And when taxes do go up for everyone by X%, mine do too. In one way it's the permit and rules I hate almost more than the dollars.

Here's how I see the math working...
It costs X amount to run local government. The money to pay for it comes from property taxes. If you're supposed to be paying Y amount based on the true value of your property, but are in fact only paying Z amount, the difference between Y and Z must come from somewhere. That somewhere is higher taxes for everyone.

A simpler way to put it is this:
Say five guys get together to buy a widget and the widget costs $500. So each guy should put in $100. But Bobby (name made up - not commenting on any posters here) only puts in $75. The $25 shortfall is spread over the other four guys.

As to permits - I'm a licensed electrician and have a dislike of permits as much as anyone. But I've also found some frightening electrical work done in my own home - installed by past owners. Aluminum NMB (from the 1970s) joined to copper with inappropriate connectors. Hot and neutral reversed. Stove hard-wired to electrical panel without a breaker. Fires start and people die due to these types of issues. So - it is important to strike some type of balance between invasive permits and life safety.

Mike

 

[jimmyj]

Good explanation. Thanks. Emotionally I honestly don't know why I'm so "stubborn" about this. Probably a dislike of Gov't practices.

 

[johnrex62]

The way property tax works - the total needed revenue amount is divided by the total assessed value. As an example - if assessed value of an area goes from $40,000,000 to $44,000,000 and the budget calls for $200,000 in revenue then the tax rate goes from $5.00 per $1000 assessed value to $4.55 per $1000 assessed value.

Loren, I have never lived in NY, but I have lived in 5 other states and know a number of people in other taxing jurisdiction with whom I have discussed taxation issues. In every taxing jurisdiction I have had the dubious pleasure of becoming knowledgeable, your scenario would result in a budget surplus, NOT a tax rate reduction.

 

[dcyrilc]

Here's how I see the math working...
It costs X amount to run local government. The money to pay for it comes from property taxes. If you're supposed to be paying Y amount based on the true value of your property, but are in fact only paying Z amount, the difference between Y and Z must come from somewhere. That somewhere is higher taxes for everyone.

A simpler way to put it is this:
Say five guys get together to buy a widget and the widget costs $500. So each guy should put in $100. But Bobby (name made up - not commenting on any posters here) only puts in $75. The $25 shortfall is spread over the other four guys.

As to permits - I'm a licensed electrician and have a dislike of permits as much as anyone. But I've also found some frightening electrical work done in my own home - installed by past owners. Aluminum NMB (from the 1970s) joined to copper with inappropriate connectors. Hot and neutral reversed. Stove hard-wired to electrical panel without a breaker. Fires start and people die due to these types of issues. So - it is important to strike some type of balance between invasive permits and life safety.

Mike

Well put Mike. That was the reason the permitting process was put into place and I agree with it.

Where I have issues, is when 10 years ago, I put in for a permit to put a house on my 17 acre farm and the county told me that I would need to tear out the farm, put 16.5 acres into native wildlife habitat, and could use 1/2 acre for my house. Things like this have nothing to do with the intent of permitting. BTW, around here native wildlife habitat is called Native Growth Protection Areas and must be fenced and you can be arrested if you as much as walk on it.

 

[MikeInEburg]

Loren, I have never lived in NY, but I have lived in 5 other states and know a number of people in other taxing jurisdiction with whom I have discussed taxation issues. In every taxing jurisdiction I have had the dubious pleasure of becoming knowledgeable, your scenario would result in a budget surplus, NOT a tax rate reduction.

In Maryland, each local jurisdiction must annually set their tax rate at one of three levels:

Constant Rate: Property tax rate (millage) remains the same, often yielding higher total revenue due to increased appraised values

Constant Yield: Property tax rate changes (often lowers) as appropriate to garner the same total revenue as year prior

Something else: Often somewhere between constant rate and constant yield to garner the revenue needed to fund the budget.

Unfortunately, it is rare that the constant yield tax rate is used.

Mike

 

[MikeInEburg]

Well put Mike. That was the reason the permitting process was put into place and I agree with it.

Where I have issues, is when 10 years ago, I put in for a permit to put a house on my 17 acre farm and the county told me that I would need to tear out the farm, put 16.5 acres into native wildlife habitat, and could use 1/2 acre for my house. Things like this have nothing to do with the intent of permitting. BTW, around here native wildlife habitat is called Native Growth Protection Areas and must be fenced and you can be arrested if you as much as walk on it.

Some balance is required. I should have reasonable use of my property and it is wrong to require me to leave vacant a part of my property in order to fulfill some other group's desire for open space (without compensation) But should I be allowed to run a junk yard on my 1/2 acre neighborhood lot?
Mike

 

[tallyho8]

Every 4 years the gov't reassesses (raises the assessment) our property for inflation. Even after Katrina our property value went up due to inflation, thus our property is assessed for a higher value even though there have been no improvements and the property has actually depreciated.

Our taxes are not supposed to ever be raised except by the vote of the people so when assessments go up the taxing rate is supposed to come down to result in equal amounts of taxes being collected.

NOT!!!

There are many different taxing districts collecting taxes on our property and some of these districts decide that they do not want to lower their taxing rate thus raising our taxes without voter approval.

This chart shows the taxing districts that did not lower their rates after our last assessment and the percentage of tax increases they received due to inflation.

*District
*What the tax rate should have been lowered to
*Increase rate for 2008
*% increase in 2008 tax rate

School Board 18.75 mills 22.91 mills 22.2%
Sheriff 6.78 mills 8.28 mills 22.1%
Coroners Office 1.28 mills 1.56 mills 21.9%
Jeff. Levee Dist. 3.21 mills 4.01 mills 24.9%
W. Jeff Levee Dist. 4.29 mills 5.03 mills 17.2%

Because the entities listed above did not roll back their tax rates as they are "supposed" to, Jefferson Parish property owners will pay $21,000,000 more taxes this year without voter approval.

This is not counting new buildings or improvements but just taxes on our property due to reassessment for inflation.

I have no doubt that if your jurisdiction raises your taxes for your chicken coop, the same situation will exist and other property owners will not reap the benefits of lower taxes just because you pay higher taxes.

 

[jimmyj]

Hey, can the chickens now vote? Who did they vote for?

 

[johnrex62]

Hey, can the chickens now vote? Who did they vote for?

Sure they can vote, and they are just as dumb as we are about it. Why else would the politicians cater to them with that "a chicken in every pot" slogan? They think it means free housing.