Need help adding a hydraulic adjusted plow

[mpilihp]

Hi Kennyd my first post has a picture of the valve, its a poor one cause its always dark outside now by the time I get home, if you need a better one Ill post one this weekend.

I counted the hoses, there are 10, which of 8 are for the FEL so the other two are feed and return I assume.

I called the dealer (best word for, they dont sell new tractors but resell used and carry parts) for Pasqualis. He could not give me specifics on it but stated when he added them for clients he stated to get valve with a self centering lever and that is open when centered (allow fluid to pass through when not engaging it) and it must have a relief valve (when using valve and ram goes to end fluid will dump back out exit hose)

He said to connect its input to the out port of the existing 2 spool valve assembly and the out port of the new single valve to the return hose to the tank that was taken off of the existing 2 spool valve body.

This sounds in direct contradiction to what ive been reading in threads on this forum, but would be the cheapest, easiest way to do it.

So with that, what is the problem with hooking it up in that manor? What do I risk damaging?

Id be running the plow angle rams so there really wouldnt be alot of pressure on it I wouldnt think.

Thanks

~ Phil

 

[kennyd]

Hi Kennyd my first post has a picture of the valve, its a poor one cause its always dark outside now by the time I get home, if you need a better one Ill post one this weekend.

I counted the hoses, there are 10, which of 8 are for the FEL so the other two are feed and return I assume.

I called the dealer (best word for, they dont sell new tractors but resell used and carry parts) for Pasqualis. He could not give me specifics on it but stated when he added them for clients he stated to get valve with a self centering lever and that is open when centered (allow fluid to pass through when not engaging it) and it must have a relief valve (when using valve and ram goes to end fluid will dump back out exit hose)

He said to connect its input to the out port of the existing 2 spool valve assembly and the out port of the new single valve to the return hose to the tank that was taken off of the existing 2 spool valve body.

This sounds in direct contradiction to what ive been reading in threads on this forum, but would be the cheapest, easiest way to do it.

So with that, what is the problem with hooking it up in that manor? What do I risk damaging?

Id be running the plow angle rams so there really wouldnt be alot of pressure on it I wouldnt think.

Thanks

~ Phil

Need better pictures...10 hoses? It's usually 6 or 7, 4 for the cylinders, 1 FEED or IN, and 1 OUT or T and possibly a PB (power beyond) hose.

OK, I just looked at the picture again...I see that some hoses are stacked on the same port-that explains the 10.

There is more pressure than you think...all the weight from the snow will be trying to collapse the cylinder!

You can hook it up that way in series on the OUT line, it is not recommended but possible if you have no other choices.

 

[mpilihp]

Hi Kenny there is a port with a plug in it that you can see in that picture, dont know what it is, could be the power beyond port but I dont know.

I have see on ebay some 3 spool units for sale, if I knew I could bold up my existing lines to it and add this new one to it Id be willing to go that route too.

Why is plumbing another valve inline not recommended? What could I damage?

Thanks

Phil

 

[kennyd]

That port/plug may very well be for a PB sleeve-but finding the proper one for your valve may be impossible, they are not universal but rather manufacturer specific.

Most valve's are not supposed to see high pressure on the OUT or T ports, when you plumb in a valve downstream, and that valve is activated the the pressure can rise enough in the first valve to cause damage. While it's often talked about here, I have never seen pictures of it. It is always best to use the PB ports whenever possible.

You could add a new PB equipped joystick valve to run the loader, and then use your existing valve as your new "remotes". Kind of the best of both worlds since you would be updating your loader control to a modern joystick style, and you get two extra valves/spools for "free".

Like this: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=9-7401

 

[J_J]

Hi Kenny there is a port with a plug in it that you can see in that picture, dont know what it is, could be the power beyond port but I dont know.

I have see on ebay some 3 spool units for sale, if I knew I could bold up my existing lines to it and add this new one to it Id be willing to go that route too.

Why is plumbing another valve inline not recommended? What could I damage?

Thanks

Phil

Perhaps I can answer that. Most hyd valves are made with high pressure in. and low pressure out. the tank ports are not built to handle the high pressure that could result from a valve downstream activating and causing the first valve to see high pressure at the tank port. If the port was built to handle 500 psi, and the valve and cyl downstream caused high pressure up to 3000 psi, I think you can see what could happen.

In Ampa's cracked valve, I believe it was caused by high pressure, because the tank port was blocked. The result is the same. So if you can determine the tank port pressure rating, then you can use it if it is the same as the in port. Usually, it is the valve that breaks, as the rest of the hyd system, hoses, cyl, etc, is rated for high pressure.

 

[PILOON]

YOU NEED 2 VALVES TO HAVE
L/R ANGLE
UP DOWN
You have 2 at present.
Up/down and tilt.
To plow you don't need tilt, so-use the tilt circuit for your angle function and replace (seasonally) the 2 tilt cylinders with rods or otherwise 'lock them'.
In fact if they were simply capped, and had a tad of air trapped they would act as shock absorbers.
Now re-route your tilt hoses to activate your angling cylinder (s)

Cooler possibility might be to seasonally relocate one or both tilt cylinders to provide your angle function, however the tilt cyls would be longer than necessary and a bit cumbersome.

Just some food for thought.

 

[kennyd]

You could add a new PB equipped joystick valve to run the loader, and then use your existing valve as your new "remotes". Kind of the best of both worlds since you would be updating your loader control to a modern joystick style, and you get two extra valves/spools for "free".

Like this: https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=&qty=1&item=9-7401

Quoting myself here...

The more I thought about this option, the more I think it would be to hard to do with your setup. Since the hoses going to the loader cylinders are terminated at the valve with double-stacked banjo fittings and not regular threaded fittings presents a very big problem. Adapting a new valve to those would require new hoses probably, and you'd have to Tee them together on the loader vs. on the valve body. Basically you would be re-plumbing the whole loader and I am sure that is not in the cards-it wouldn't be for me anyway.

Even adding a simple electric or manual diverter valve (that directs flow from the dump/curl to your plow) would be next to imposible because of that hose setup. Your machine has a very unique (read strange:laughing non-standard setup that presents huge challenges to make changes to.

 

[mpilihp]

YOU NEED 2 VALVES TO HAVE
L/R ANGLE
UP DOWN
You have 2 at present.
Up/down and tilt.
To plow you don't need tilt, so-use the tilt circuit for your angle function and replace (seasonally) the 2 tilt cylinders with rods or otherwise 'lock them'.
In fact if they were simply capped, and had a tad of air trapped they would act as shock absorbers.
Now re-route your tilt hoses to activate your angling cylinder (s)

Cooler possibility might be to seasonally relocate one or both tilt cylinders to provide your angle function, however the tilt cyls would be longer than necessary and a bit cumbersome.

Just some food for thought.

Hi thanks is will be my last resort plan as Id like to be able to quickly switch from plow back to bucket and adding having to add/remove links would be extra work. Plus I would like a third control for a hydraulic top link on my 3pt hitch.

 

[DavidNPro]

I have a Pasquali tractor as well, and as eluded to above lets just say they are special in some areas .

I was going to add a similar setup to mine last winter, and had planned on using a new valve before the current one, then having the pb port run into the input of the existing loader valve. I hadnt though through all the details at that time so this setup may have some flaws.

Also, from what I have found my tractor a 993 model has about a 6-8 GPM pump. That is according to everything I could find about it and people I talked to.

In the end, I used a plow and mounted it right to the loader arms. In hindsight that is not the most effecient thing in the world without angle. This year will be using a completely different tractor.

 

[mpilihp]

Quoting myself here...

The more I thought about this option, the more I think it would be to hard to do with your setup. Since the hoses going to the loader cylinders are terminated at the valve with double-stacked banjo fittings and not regular threaded fittings presents a very big problem. Adapting a new valve to those would require new hoses probably, and you'd have to Tee them together on the loader vs. on the valve body. Basically you would be re-plumbing the whole loader and I am sure that is not in the cards-it wouldn't be for me anyway.

Even adding a simple electric or manual diverter valve (that directs flow from the dump/curl to your plow) would be next to imposible because of that hose setup. Your machine has a very unique (read strange:laughing non-standard setup that presents huge challenges to make changes to.

Hi Kenny that is what I was going to ask you next was will my loader lines attach to the new valve, sounds like no. So on normal loader setups it sounds like there are only two lines for the lift rams compared to mine that has 4 correct? How are the rams run in series?

My connections are like this:
Valve1 out - Left ram in - Left ram out - Valve 1 return
Valve1 out - Left ram in - Left ram out - Valve 1 return

Are you saying normally its:
Valve 1 out - Left ram in - Left ram out - right ram in - right ram out - Valve 1 return

How about if I add a single spool valve that has the power beyond port and put it in FRONT of my two spool valve and feed my two spool valve from the new valves power beyond port. Then connect the low press return from the new valve to my two spool valves output and send to the tank. Such as this unit:

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7974&catname=hydraulic

I think the connections would be:

Pump-out - in-NEW1Spool-low press out - Tee to tank
NEW1Spool-PowBey - in-existing2SPOOL-out - Tee to tank

Then off of the new 1 spool the connections to my plows rams (has 2) would they be:

1Spool-controlA - in-leftram-out - in-rightram-out - 1Spool-controlB

Or would it be:

1Spool-controlA -Tee- in-leftram-out - Tee- 1Spool-controlB
1Spool-controlA -Tee- in-rightram-out - Tee- 1Spool-controlB

Thanks for the help

~ Phil