Ethanol on the Ropes?

[LostInTheWoods]

I do understand the second generation using non food crops would be a better route but now that we know there is enough oil/gas for the next 100 years these hard times may slow down second generation ethanol development.

I thought it was interesting how Henry Ford built his first generation of vehicles to run on ethanol. Sounds like flex fuels is nothing new.

Of course, when Henry Ford first started churning out vehicles, there weren't a lot of them around. Great amounts of ethanol weren't required. The amount we require today to make a significant impact is a number of degrees greater. And therein lies a problem with ethanol (even second generation ethanol) as a fuel source. How can we possibly grow and transport enough biomass in an economically feasible manner to meet current needs?

As far as the numbers I have seen, even second generation ethanol production requires more energy to produce than it can deliver. With more research, maybe we will see a net gain. But we're not there, yet.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Also a 100 years ago alcohol was being produced out in the shed in that big copper thing.

Cheap energy was our ticket to sucess but that ticket has expired.

 

[Ken45101]

I do understand the second generation using non food crops would be a better route but now that we know there is enough oil/gas for the next 100 years these hard times may slow down second generation ethanol development.

Ethanol has nothing to do with oil/gas availability. It's all about pork barrel politics, dishonest government, vote buying, corruption, kickbacks, etc. If anyone really looked at the real data, it was apparent from the beginning that corn ethanol did NOT reduce the use of fossil fuels. It always has been apparent that corn/ethanol used as much fossil fuel as it "saved", plus it is a less efficient auto fuel, reducing auto mpg.

If it were truly an energy issue, we would have allowed importation of ethanol made from sugar cane, a lot more sensible approach. But that would not buy votes in the corn belt, nor make certain people rich with government subsidies.

I thought it was interesting how Henry Ford built his first generation of vehicles to run on ethanol. Sounds like flex fuels is nothing new.

That just goes to show that there are better fuels than alcohol.

In the meanwhile, it jacked up food prices around the world.

 

[forgeblast]

My Grandma had a still on the woodstove all winter long, she said she made more running shine then milk during the depression.

 

[Gator6x4]

Ethanol has nothing to do with oil/gas availability. It's all about pork barrel politics, dishonest government, vote buying, corruption, kickbacks, etc. If anyone really looked at the real data, it was apparent from the beginning that corn ethanol did NOT reduce the use of fossil fuels. It always has been apparent that corn/ethanol used as much fossil fuel as it "saved", plus it is a less efficient auto fuel, reducing auto mpg.

If it were truly an energy issue, we would have allowed importation of ethanol made from sugar cane, a lot more sensible approach. But that would not buy votes in the corn belt, nor make certain people rich with government subsidies.



That just goes to show that there are better fuels than alcohol.

In the meanwhile, it jacked up food prices around the world.

Well said. If anyone want to see where there tax dollars are going for Farm subsidies visist this web site, EWG Farm Subsidy Database click on your state and see who is receiving millions of your tax dollars and laughing all the way to the bank. Cotton and wheat receive more money than corn. Sugar Cane does not produce subsidy payments like corn, cotton, wheat, milk, etc.

 

[mmurphy]

I have defended ethanol, and still do. The fact that ethanol is subsidized, took it off the farmers being paid to leave ground set idle. Ethanol has paid back greatly to the economics for many, including farmers, factories and so on. Most people say it is raising the price of food. Ha Ha!! I would bet if all the ethanol plants shut down right now, in the next 2 to 3 years the price will keep inflating.

When the price of corn drops afterwards, farm ground will go idle again and farmers will need more help, and so would the jobless of many who rely on the jobs. The jobs that come with this is not just people working at ethanol plants, and or farms.

I hope Willy Nelson gets his rolled cig out for another farm relief aid!!!! I am reminded we still have subsidies for oil companies to. How I know? GOP was bragging about it last election and they said it was good for the country. Maybe they are right. Ethanol is good for the country also.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

mmurphy it would be interesting to see how the $6 billion tax dollars pumped into ethanol stimulus is recovered in lower set aside acreage payment, additional local, state, fed taxes paid by those jobs created by the industry.

It is the technical aspects for fuel that is my biggest issue because I have a few pre 1994 gas hogs.

 

[crazyal]

I would be much happier if the mandate for Ethanol was repealed. I think it would make better use of our money to help get E85 pumps all across the country. Let people choose what works for them.

 

[Mace Canute]

It's very interesting to see the subsidies the US government pays out to farmers, especially when they complain so loudly about so called Canadian subsidies. Is that a case of "Do as I say and not do as I do"?

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

All energy is subsidized. Nuclear, Wind, Solar, Bio and yes Oil. It takes a mighty big Navy to keep those middle east shipping lanes open. Without a doubt oil is the most subsidized energy on the planet. Until we find the perfect energy I guess this debate will go on forever.