Rough plumbing - under metal building HELP! :-)

[ITHINKICAN]

The company doing our metal building asked where we wanted our pipe located for the plumbing - they want to do rebar tomorrow or Wednesday - we said we weren't sure - we elaborated and said we might want a total of four - toilet/sink/shower (bathroom) & sink (kitchen) - we asked for suggestions. He said we might need a plumber. A plumber offered to do the rough for $1200. I believe he will install if I can get the pipe down there and possibly assist with the installation... not sure.

In the meantime - does anyone know:
How I can do this without a plumber? ANY info?
Where would I located the pipe (distance from each other in bathroom)?
What type of drop would the pipe need to get waste safely to the septic?

ANY information would be helpful - sorry - 10 people at my desk - busy as heck - want to go look at pad site (pre rebar) - a little bit of a stressful day - no time to speak like an educated individual.

THANX!! :thumbsup:

 

[SARG]

Sadly ...... I suspect if you haven't gotten all those details figured out ....... and the contractor is doing rebar this week ......... this whole project isn't going to end well.

 

[nybirdman]

Go with the pro for sure;if your rough-ins aren't in the right spot&height they will be use-less.He should know the proper sizeing also.May-be you can help with the labor.You only have one chance in a concrete pour.
40 years in the business....hire a pro you won't regret it.

 

[KWentling]

Do you need to pull permits? Are you allowed to do plumbing yourself or must it be done by a licensed plumber? Inspections required? If you have a bathroom in your house or at work that would work, just measure distance from the wall and fixture to fixture and lay it out the same. Don't forget the venting. The only fixture that can't be adjusted is the toilet. Are you burying water supply lines too? Wastewater plumbing needs to have 1/8" to 1/4" per foot fall.
The store that you buy pipe and fittings from may have someone who can help. Might best be left for a plumber because mistakes under concrete are costly to fix. I had to break concrete out of my basement because my contractor didn't get it inspected before the pour. Wound up in small claims court over that deal. Cost me $1000 to fix.

Kim

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Sarg - thanx. We are a little nervous - but we are pretty sure everthing will be fine.
NYB - thanx. I'm leaning your way - but sure would love to save a couple bucks if possible.
KW - thanx. Not sure/not gonna. Not sure/hope not. Not sure/hope not. And thank you. And dang - sounds like we should write the check.

Thank you to everyone!! All assistance is much appreciated!

Company said they can block out a section and not pour in that area - said we can dig under permiter beam later - not fond of the idea - but would consider it if someone else has seen this approach as being successful.

 

[kennyd]

Have you done any planning at all? It sure sounds like you haven't :confused2: these details should have been worked out a LONG time ago! Good luck!

 

[Kays Supply]

I am a lisc. plumber in Illinois. The very least you do want to leave the slab out in the plumbing areas if you are not going to use a pro. That will at least let the concrete people get their work done and you can take a breather to make up your mind. Be sure they are willing to come back and pour the hole. I have been called after the owner gave up several times with the slab open like that. It was a life saver for the owner. It really didn't cost him much more than if I had done it before any of the concrete was poured. You can probably finish the walls yourself much easier than the slab. Be sure and think about if you want any water on the far side of the building before you pour. Also are you taking the sewer out the wall where the bathrooms are or do you need to go out some other way. Same for water.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

KS - THANK YOU!!!! We intend to bring in the water on the one side - we didn't think about taking the waste outward - now that you mention it - the other side would be better for waste...

Unfortunately we invested a lot effort on things that seemed more important at the time but we overlooked this facet of the project - truth is we have very little intention of ever making any living quarters. It is a total last minute thought... might just do nothing at all. No worries either way. We have a house and we also have a travel trailer with beds, bath and kitchen... just considering last minute plumbing in case the next owner might want to do living quarters or if we get bored one summer and decide to do it ourself.

KS - Does the $1200 sound unreasonable. I dont mind writing the check. I'd just hate to pay someone $1200 today for something I could have done with a trip to Home Depot over the weekend. The company building the structure is flexible - so I can postpone everything a few days or even a week if need be...

We are optimistic that everything will be fine - with or without plumbing. :thumbsup:

 

[Birdhunter1]

It sounds to me like you don't know where you want the drains much less what size to make them or how to pipe them. My advice would be to call a plumber and have them do it. To me $1200 sounds high but I don't know how big of an area you are talking about, with my building I had about 10' of pipe total under the concrete excluding the floor drains which are not piped into the drains for the sink and toilet.

 

[KWentling]

$1200 sounds kind of high but without knowing the particulars he may have been covering his *****. Might be less (or more) when he knows exactly what he is going to do. I didn't put a bathroom in my shop when I built it and wish I had. Even though it is close to the house, it would still have been worth the effort.

Kim

 

[Kays Supply]

I understood that you were going to put rough plumbing for a bath, kitchen and laundry. If so $1200 isn't that far off. It also depends on how far apart they are.

 

[gerard]

Can't comment too much on the price but as an avid "do it yourselfer," in your position at this time I'd have a pro do the rough in. Pipe size, pitch, and pipe placement are all according to code for a good reason - they work. Too little pitch and you'll get toilet backups. Not fun. The rough has to be done right the first time unless you feel like jack hammering up your new slab. You can save $ by doing the finish plumbing, running the pipes above the slab etc. That'll still save you a lot of $, BUT if you scew it up it's easily fixed.

 

[jake98]

How about put a sand box under the area so that the concrete is only 2" thick? Then you can relax. Except for the waste pipe going out the other side..

 

[ustmd]

To echo everyone here...get the professional. If you make a mistake on the rough in, it will be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry difficult to fix later.

$1200 is a little high, but not out of the range, especially if there is a drive involved for the plumber

 

[AHNC]

With respect, you are simply not prepared to do this. You are out of time. But, here you go, if you choose. What fixtures are you going to use? If you know the fixtures you are going to use you can get the fixture dimensions and rough-in dimensions off their web site. What lay-out for the fixtures? You have to start with your exterior wall string lines. Make sure the lay-out is square with the world. Measure to the center of your "fixture wall(s)" from those exterior marks , set your petition centerline with string and that is your center for your waste lines. String lines work and have for centuries, but I guess they use lasers today. AS far as elevations, how far from the most remote fixture to the invert of your foundations wall exit? From there to the invert of your septic tank/city sewer? That will set your grade for the first qtr bend at the base of the drop from your fixture. Run it 1/4"/ft. For a 2' level tape a 1/2" block on one end and run everything to level.

$1200 is cheap compared to the costs if this doesn't go well. At this late date, I would suggest that you hire this done. The job has gotten ahead of you for now and you will end up holding up your contractor, which will end up costing more.

in fact there isn't a lot to this type of job, but when you don't know precisely what you want and need to do it takes forever. I offer this tale in proof. When I was a first year apprentice in Local 109 we did lead and oakum soil pipe. I was working with a first rate journeyman. He wore pressed kacki shirt and pants. Neat as a pin. He went home that way too, which I could never figure out, and he just got a lot of work done. We were doing the rough-in on a Voc Tech school. I was working with Lou and we did a couple of the bathrooms. At lunch one day, the conversation came around to me, and never missing an opportunity to make an a** of myself (yes, I still never miss an opportunity), I said I could do this work as well and as fast as Lou. Well, the forman jumped on this and as we had a couple identical back to back bathrooms he got us both set up. Lou was encouraging me and telling me he was sure I could do it. The day came and i was on fire. I was so ready to go. Well, you know how this ends. Lou never broke a sweat. He came out of the ground clean and pressed. His work was done. It was perfect. I don't think I've ever worked a harder day, or gotten less done. In addition to failing miserably, I was soaked with sweat and they almost had to pick me out of that hole with a cherrypicker. 40 yrs later I'm still trying to work like Lou. I have a ways to go yet. My point here is, of course, to ensure that you not end up like me on your job Good luck!

 

[Raspy]

KS - THANK YOU!!!! We intend to bring in the water on the one side - we didn't think about taking the waste outward - now that you mention it - the other side would be better for waste...

just considering last minute plumbing in case the next owner might want to do living quarters or if we get bored one summer and decide to do it ourself




Don't ever build your own house with the excuse that you are doing it for the next owner!!!!!!! Unless it's just a tract spec house that you will be selling soon.

The next owner is someone you will never meet and you have no idea of what he might want. You will probably be gone by then and why would you plan for something you know nothing about?

If you like it, someone else will too. BUILD IT FOR YOURSELF! Not some mystery person from the future.

 

[JimRB]

I have found that you do not do plumbing with a trip to Home Depot, especially if you do not know what you are doing. Maybe 2 or three trips. Also what a pro can do in 4-8 hours will take an amateur a few days and the amateur will probably screw it up. Of course the plumber works faster when working off blueprints. Yes, I plumbed my barn for a half bath, washing machine and wash rack. I may have had help from a guy that had done plumbing, I forget. I do not recall it as a particularly fast task. Permit pulled.

 

[doxford jim]

If it was me, I would plan where I would want to put the pipes (sewage, water , drains etc) and get them installed by the plumber. If you decide to hold off on the bathroom, sinks etc., you still have the essentials already there. Re septic - you will need to consider a septic tank and drain field at some time as well.

Now is the time to do the work - cheaper and much quicker now, than later down the road.

Jim

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Ok. I get it My bad. I should have been more prepared - I should have done my research further in advance. Given the right circumstances we could have read more on DIY books/websites, then visited HD and Lowes a few times, spoke to a few plumbers and then brought out the pipes and gotten started - then called a plumber to assist with making sure it was right... it would have taken several trips to HD/Lowes but would have been worth the savings and the learning experience. I'm not sure how we overlooked this item. Oh well. There's always the next time - I sure would like to try it at least once - just for the satisfaction.

Now - for the million dollar - I want to sound relatively intelligent (he doesn't know I'm a dummy yet) when I speak to the plumber that quoted the $1200 - first thing I want to find out is if he understands all we want is the bare minimum - I guess that would be waste water pipes and vent pipes? He might have thought we want it tied to septic and or tied to water supply lines... this would require lots of material = lots of money.

During my conversation with this plumber and atleast a second opinion - what are the exact plumbing terms for what I will need? The bare minimum? What would each item be called?

We want one shower, one toilet, one sink (bathroom) & then one sink (kitchen). Based on my google search - it looks like we can get away with what appears to be one large waste pipe to exit the structure - I am needing my toilet to have a p-trap under slab and then it can tie to the waste pipe - I am needing the sinks to tie in too. But how do I say it intelligently?

Can someone help me illustrate the items - he and I can decide on location - but going in to it - I'd like to state the items using plumbing terms and sound like I've done some research.

Thanx!

It's only an implement barn/workshop/metal building. We'll put everything along a wall so we have plenty of storage and workshop space remaining.

 

[MikeInEburg]

Can someone help me illustrate the items - he and I can decide on location - but going in to it - I'd like to state the items using plumbing terms and sound like I've done some research.

.

I would simply describe what you want and let the plumber do his job. Don't make this any harder than it needs to be.
Mike