Junk garage doors

[irvingj]

I should add as an afterthought-- other than the way in which the opener arms were attached to them, my Wayne Dalton doors --and operators-- have performed flawlessly for the eight years since the garage was built. Overall, I've been very satisfied with them.

 

[orezok]

Pilot - how many times in that 18 years did you lubricate all the moving parts? If you didn't follow manufacturer's recommendations, then it's not fair to blame the manufacturer.

 

[Pilot]

I lubricated the hinges periodically and there is little resistance and no squeaking in opening the door by hand.

I think it is correct to blame the poor quality of the door for several reasons:

A door outfit that sells Wayne Dalton as well as other brands says they are bottom of the line, although WD also does make better doors than the ones they peddle to builders.

All the door repair and replacement techs I talked with said these doors are the poorest and I was lucky to get so many years service. They have seen these doors fail in less than 5 years, although they say the adjustment of the opener affects service life. I installed the opener myself. I got 18 years service out of the door.

The interior skin is 32 gauge, .0097" thick while other brands use heavier gauge steel, the thinnest other brands I found use 27 gauge, or .0164". Most brands use 25 gauge steel skins, .0209".

One brand I looked at in their warehouse uses 27 gauge, but has 18 gauge steel plates running from hinge to hinge top to bottom in the center of the door where the opener would attach. WD had no provision for reinforcement where the stresses are greatest.

For the record, I did not intend to blame builders. They build the house, trying to keep costs down and unless a door fails in a very short time, they would be unlikely to hear there was a problem. If your door failed in 5-10 years would you complain to the builder? Probably not.

My builder will hear about it, not as a complaint but as feedback. We asked for and he built a medium quality home for us at a very competitive price when building was booming and it was hard to find a contractor to even bid on a house of less than 3500 sq. ft. He built it for $55 per sq. ft; the next lowest bid was $65 and they went up rapidly from there, some not even bothering to look at the site or the plans before they bid as much as $90. He built it in 83 days, ground breaking to move in. Although he had 25+ years as a carpenter, this was about the 5th house he built as a general contractor and he has learned a lot since then. We have spent about $4,000 fixing things that shouldn't have failed, but that only raised the cost by about $2.35 per sq. ft. and we got several years service out of the items that failed. We would hire him again. Totally ethical, which I expected but was reinforced during construction: I would ask subs, "How do you like working with Dave?" They all said the same thing, "He's great! He pays us on time!" And that's how he built in 83 days; subs would suspend other work to work for him when called because they knew they would be paid. We only waited for one sub.

 

[irvingj]

Ouch, Pilot! That's all the opener arm was attached to?? (That's a horizontal ridge, right?)

No wonder it ripped off! Just think of the leverage effect of hooking on to thin aluminum 2"+ away from the surface....

I think I must have gotten the "new improved" system!

 

[ray66v]

One of my best friends is VP of one of the biggest O/H door Co's in this part of the country.

Much of what is in this thread is true.

Wayne Dalton makes low end doors for builders, rentals, and cheap people. They also make middle of the road, and high end stuff.

Not every builder uses the low end stuff, but most do. Sad, because $100 gets you into a better door.

Haas makes a better door in each category, at a better price than W.D. And, they offer outstanding warranty service.

Like everything else, you get what you pay for.

There is a simple fix for the torn opener mount, go to your local door company and buy a bolt on strut, and slide it over the top of the torn one, and bolt it on with self tappers. They cost about $3 a foot. You can go a few feet, or go the whole length of the panel.

There are also stronger opener brackets available, to replace the basic installation.

The opener bracket I have on my biggest door, which has panels that are all flush on the inside, (nice), goes under the top hinge, down the panel, and under the hinge below. So, there's about 14 screws holding it on. and it's made out of 1/8" steel.

If the door is frozen to the ground, the opener can pull on it all day, and the bracket won't budge.

They make similar opener brackets for doors with built in struts like the OP's.

A word of advice if your buying a new door: Up grade the spring(s) at the time of purchase. They almost never tell you that for a nominal fee, you can go with heavier gauge springs that will last much longer than the standard ones. :thumbsup:

 

[Pilot]

Had the strut installed today. Could have done it myself, but didn't know where to find one and only one door installer mentioned it, saying he would install if for $140 total, which he did.

He said the same thing as ray66v about the springs. Standard springs are rated for 10,000 cycles; upgraded springs are available for 20,000 cycles or more (I don't remember all the options). At 18 years, I figure we are well beyond the 10,000 cycles, so it may be time to call for new springs before they break while the door is partway up.

 

[ray66v]

He said the same thing as ray66v about the springs. Standard springs are rated for 10,000 cycles; upgraded springs are available for 20,000 cycles or more (I don't remember all the options). At 18 years, I figure we are well beyond the 10,000 cycles, so it may be time to call for new springs before they break while the door is partway up.

You did really well at 18 years on a set of springs. Most standard ones last 10-12.

It is amazing how many people will go against the advice of the installer, and only replace the broken spring. Then, they will expect some sort of a warranty, or discount, when the second one breaks a short time later. :laughing:

The labor is about the same, so yes, always replace both of them. Unless it is a very unusual situation. Like an early failure due to a defect, or your moving out tomorrow. :thumbsup:

$140 is about right. My friend's Co. charges $75 for a service call, so if they put a full length strut on a 16' door, with no tax, you'd be at $123.

 

[Mace Canute]

My garage was built in the late seventies, so well over 30 years old now. The OH door was an all wood insulated door and is still hanging in there. Originally, it was treated with "Liquid Rawhide" but later I had it clad with plain white aluminum cladding. Love that maintenance free coating! Still on the original springs and everything. I added an electric opener in the early eighties, a Stanley 1/2 hp one from Simpson Sears and it has also worked flawlessly. Only thing I wasn't happy about was the bowing it experienced in the winter months because of the extremely low humidity inside the heated garage. I took care of that with a couple of cheap strengthening ribs that I screwed to the panels. Knock on wood, eh?

More on topic, a couple of friends of mine have had steel OH doors installed on their garages, and they both went with commercial grade doors rather than residential grade ones. There's a lot of small differences in them for only a little more money but they are much better quality. Goes to reaffirm what others have said, buy quality and don't base your decision on cost alone.

 

[Pilot]

The morning after the strut was installed, one of the springs broke!

So the installer came back today, replaced the springs, the rollers (Wayne Dalton uses cheapie plastic rollers) and the bearings the rod that holds the springs ride on.

Works better than new!

Total cost was about 1/3 the cost of a new door. If the repair lasts 5 years, I'll be happy.

If the installer had told me about the limited spring lifetime before installing the strut, we probably would have gone for a new door.

 

[not2old]

If you decide to up-grade to longer lasting springs, ask how heavy they are before ordering them. I ordered custom made springs as my garage doors were used near 50 times each day and the originals lasted less than two years. When they arrived, I could hardly lift them, at least 50 lbs. each. They were difficult to install and I was worried that the pipe they were installed on was too weak to hold them. They did turn out OK though. When you replace the rollers, not only should you buy the metal ones, get the ones with more balls in them. Go to a company that installs and services doors for your parts rather than a hardware store where they won't even know what you are talking about.