slow FEL

[ovrszd]

My L4400 has a 1495 Rhino FEL. I've always thought it was a bit slow. Doesn't like to curl and lift at the same time. Even slow when lowering the empty bucket.

My Brother recently purchased an L3240 with Kubota loader. His loader is twice as fast as mine. My cylinders are a little bigger than his. Both use a Joystick. Both use the same size hose to feed the controller.

Could it be the flow rate of the controller?? I suspect a flow rate problem by it being slow to lower.

Any ideas?? Thanks in advance.

 

[Rod in Forfar]

Try your loader with the 3 pt hitch at the bottom. On my Massey-Ferguson and TAFE, loader speed is directly tied to the adjustment of the various 3 pt hitch levers, though the Massey/TAFE system is quite primitive in comparison to most.

According to Tractordata.com Kubota pumps are powerful. There should be lots of performance there, though the guy who sold me a block splitter got rid of it because he couldn't get enough oil to it to make it work quickly. This was a newish, 35 hp Kubota, as I recall. His theory was that the lines are too narrow.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

My L4400 has a 1495 Rhino FEL. I've always thought it was a bit slow. Doesn't like to curl and lift at the same time. Even slow when lowering the empty bucket.

My Brother recently purchased an L3240 with Kubota loader. His loader is twice as fast as mine. My cylinders are a little bigger than his. Both use a Joystick. Both use the same size hose to feed the controller.

Could it be the flow rate of the controller?? I suspect a flow rate problem by it being slow to lower.

Any ideas?? Thanks in advance.

Since you cylinder are larger diameter...it seems to be that your pump flow is too low...need larger pump...
Control valve is not your problem...
You lifting force OK?

 

[J_J]

My L4400 has a 1495 Rhino FEL. I've always thought it was a bit slow. Doesn't like to curl and lift at the same time. Even slow when lowering the empty bucket.

My Brother recently purchased an L3240 with Kubota loader. His loader is twice as fast as mine. My cylinders are a little bigger than his. Both use a Joystick. Both use the same size hose to feed the controller.

Could it be the flow rate of the controller?? I suspect a flow rate problem by it being slow to lower.

The cyl should retract faster than extend.

Any ideas?? Thanks in advance.

If you know the GPM , and the cyl bore and shaft size, you can compute the speed of the cyl. To see if your valve or fittings have a restriction in them, remove one of the lift cyl base end hose. Start tractor and place hose in a clean 5 gal bucket and push lever to flow fluid out the removed hose for 10 sec. Multiply the volume by 6 for GPM's. If you get 1.5 gal in 10 sec. then you are pumping 9 gpm. If you pump 1 gal in 10 sec, then you are pumping 6 GPM.

2 in bore, 1 in shaft, 9 GPM, the cyl will extend at 11 in per sec

2 in bore, 1 in shaft, 6 GPM, the cyl will extend at 7.4 in per sec.

Say your cyl are 3 in bore, and 1.5 in shaft, at 9 GPM. your extend speed will be 4.9 in per sec.

Your cyl being larger will take longer to extend using the same GPM. You will have more force generated.

 

[J_J]

You could have someone put a flow meter and gage on your system and check to see if the pump is pumping correct volume and pressure.

L4400 hyd flow is 7.8 GPM

L3240 hyd flow is 13.2 total GPM
valve flow is 8.4 GPM

 

[AKKAMAAN]

To see if your valve or fittings have a restriction in them....

So you assume PRV is by passing??

 

[J_J]

His tractor performance may be correct. It would be hard to compare to another tractor with different pump size, and different cyl. The only true way would be to know the pump GPM, and see if anything else is using some of the total fluid like PS. If the pump is good and pumping at stated volume, and the valve and hoses are sized correctly, then he should expect the cyl to perform at a certain level. If not trouble shooting is necessary.

The other tractor should out perform his tractor as to speed of cyl operation.

 

[J_J]

So you assume PRV is by passing??

The PRV will not even come into play unless he overloads the system. If the PRV is stuck open, he should have some indication. Might even try removing and inspecting and cleaning if necessary, and then reset psi.

If both tractors would go side by side and both active the valve lever to raise the bucket at the same time, the tractor with the smaller cyl will be faster, with all things working right.

 

[MikeInEburg]

Doesn't like to curl and lift at the same time. .

This issue is likely simple plumbing. Even though you have a single handle, there are two valves in series - one before the other. If one valve is diverting fluid for action A, there is no fluid flow for action B.
Mike

 

[J_J]

On my joystick, if I try and curl at the same time as lift, both will be slower that if one function is working. The GPM is divided.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

The PRV will not even come into play unless he overloads the system.

But you say that it might be a restriction that reduce the flow....Where is the excessive flow going then??? It is a fixed displacement pump, considered a constant flow system huh??!!
A restriction in a constant flow system do not reduce flow, unless part of flow is diverted or by passed....PRV is the only by pass available, and the control valve the only diversion point available....and we must assume OP pulled the CV lever to the end to direct entire pump flow to work port.....

 

[J_J]

Don't know if he pulled the lever to max. Some of his fluid may be going to PS, if his tractor has PS. With a gage in the system, he should know the pressure the PRV is relieving. You are right about him shoving the lever to max and holding it there until the relief goes off. If he doesn't have the resistance, the relief will not activate until he reaches the max lift. The bucket should already be at max height with an empty bucket. If he is real slow to lift a load, then other factors are present. Again, speed compared to what.

If he is saying slow now, what was it doing before or when new?

I thought that restrictor you built was designed to reduce flow.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

I thought that restrictor you built was designed to reduce flow.

Yes it does, but only when feathering (diverting), or at constant pressure (PRV by passing).....

 

[ovrszd]

You could have someone put a flow meter and gage on your system and check to see if the pump is pumping correct volume and pressure.

L4400 hyd flow is 7.8 GPM

L3240 hyd flow is 13.2 total GPM
valve flow is 8.4 GPM

I thought maybe my controller was not matched to the loader/tractor and might be restricting flow/speed.

But now I think you've just explained my problem. My cylinders are slightly larger than my Brother's loader and then my pump flow is 60% of his. That's my problem.

It's not as if my loader is non-functional. I actually didn't think anything about it until he got his tractor. I'm used to the speed of my FEL now. When I get on his tractor I can barely control the FEL because it's so much faster than mine. :ashamed:

I was only inquiring in case there was some simple way to speed up my loader.

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

 

[J_J]

One way to speed up your loader would be to install a larger pump. Increase the speed of the pump. Regen on the loader lift circuit would increase speed by about 50%. Smaller cyl would do it. If you want lifting force, then increasing pressure would do it. Larger cyl would increase lifting force. Not saying to do it, but it is possible.

Ding any or these things, you have to accept and understand the limits, and what to do about any negatives.

The GPM difference between both loader valves on the tractors is only .6 GPM. The GPM used for PS is not considered in computing speed of the cyl.