Plasma Cutter Choices

[thallman]

There's a couple of brands like this that have appeared. It looks like the first generation units had their problems and without knowing for sure it looks like all these new "built in China" brands were produced in the same factory or at least from the same design. Over the last few years each brand has worked on it's own design to set themselves apart.

Some here are against anything made in China while others see them as a way to get into the plasma cutter market on a limited budget. I don't own and have never seen a LOTOS but if you have questions ask Mark about the Everlast line, they are about the same price. Between reading what he says and those of us who have Everlast products hopefully you can make a choice if a "made in China" brand is right for you.

Well spoken. And, something to think about. Also the LOTOS consumables are REALLY expensive. I wonder if Everlast's consumables are less expensive or if this is something that producers across the board are doing to regain repeated $$.

 

[jimcolt]

When thinking about plasma consumables and how expensive they are....remember that some plasma cutters and consumables provide dramatically longer consumable life as compared to others.

An Industrial Hypertherm plasma system (I'll use an HPR260 as an example) can cut 1/2" steel at over 150 inches per minute.....and it can cut 10,000 feet of (steel or more) on one nozzle that costs about $21. There are some air plasma systems that can cut 1/2" steel at 35 to 40 inches a minute....will likely cut about 200 feet before their $2 nozzle has expired. The cost of the nozzle in the industrial plasma case is $.002 per foot, the air plasma nozzle cost per foot is $.01. The Industrial plasma cuts the same 200 feet of steel for 40 cents (nozzle cost), while the Air plasma cuts 200 feet for $2 (nozzle cost).

This is a wide ranging comparison....a $70k industrial plasma vs a $800 import air plasma....however the same analogy works between a good quality air plasma brand with exceptionally long consumable life (and more expensive to purchase consumables) vs a low cost, older technology plasma with the perception of "low cost" consumables!

The big difference between plasma systems is performance in terms of 1. cut quality, 2. cut speeds/thickness ranges, 3. consumable parts life/operating cost, 4. system reliability, 5. Initial purchase price. The way to determine which plasma system is best to purchase and use for your application is to rank the above 5 plasma capabilities in order of importance for your needs. There are many cases where low cost of purchasing the system is far more important than operating cost.

The only tough point in making a good buying decision with plasma is....everyone that sells plasma will tell you that their system excells at everything listed above! It is best to listen on these forums to users experiences...and make decisions that way.

It is kind of like being in a strange town and looking for a good restaurant......should you pick the one with a few cars in the lot, or the one that looks crowded? I pick the crowded one! The crowd hangs out where the good food is!

Jim Colt

 

[deereman75]

Also buy from a company/dealer that has good support after you buy it. I always try to buy from a reputible dealer if i can, or buy an industrial used tool that will likely last me forever. I would only but welders/welding products at the local air liquide, because they are the nicest guys, they really know what they are talking about, they are honest (told me the air liquide brand mig welders were crap and they recomend against it), and they give me discounts (got as much off the oxy fule rig and tanks as the computer would allow). Also, sometimes palces like KMS tools here in western canada have really good sales on for miller/lincoln welders, but I would get better service from air liquide, and probably a better price (even if I could get it for $100 less at a big tool store, I would get it at air liquide because of the better service). The problem with those small import companys is that they can have HORRIBLE customer service, an when the product breaks, you will have a nightmare getting parts/service. If I could get a 50 amp import for $700 on line, or a hypertherm powermax 30 for $1200 at air liquide, I would wait and save my money and get the hypertherm.

 

[chuckgreen]

Also buy from a company/dealer that has good support after you buy it... The problem with those small import companys is that they can have HORRIBLE customer service, an when the product breaks, you will have a nightmare getting parts/service.

Harbor Freight might be an exception to this rule regarding plasma cutters. Or at least, I'm about to find out if they are. I purchased an HF plasma cutter, has pilot arc, 40 amp, and I've found a guy who repairs them and sells parts. The 95136 HF plasma is a true inverter machine, no MOSFETS or IBGT stuff that blows up like on the other chinese plasmas. Also, I've found Harbor Freight to be very good regarding parts, I've got other HF machines and got parts very quickly and cheaply. As always with any HF products, do your homework first and find out what everybody else says about them. Read the reviews. After reading a lot of good reviews, I decided to go ahead. I'm a hobby/farm user, and won't be using it that much.

 

[grsthegreat]

When thinking about plasma consumables and how expensive they are....remember that some plasma cutters and consumables provide dramatically longer consumable life as compared to others.

An Industrial Hypertherm plasma system (I'll use an HPR260 as an example) can cut 1/2" steel at over 150 inches per minute.....and it can cut 10,000 feet of (steel or more) on one nozzle that costs about $21. There are some air plasma systems that can cut 1/2" steel at 35 to 40 inches a minute....will likely cut about 200 feet before their $2 nozzle has expired. The cost of the nozzle in the industrial plasma case is $.002 per foot, the air plasma nozzle cost per foot is $.01. The Industrial plasma cuts the same 200 feet of steel for 40 cents (nozzle cost), while the Air plasma cuts 200 feet for $2 (nozzle cost).

This is a wide ranging comparison....a $70k industrial plasma vs a $800 import air plasma....however the same analogy works between a good quality air plasma brand with exceptionally long consumable life (and more expensive to purchase consumables) vs a low cost, older technology plasma with the perception of "low cost" consumables!

The big difference between plasma systems is performance in terms of 1. cut quality, 2. cut speeds/thickness ranges, 3. consumable parts life/operating cost, 4. system reliability, 5. Initial purchase price. The way to determine which plasma system is best to purchase and use for your application is to rank the above 5 plasma capabilities in order of importance for your needs. There are many cases where low cost of purchasing the system is far more important than operating cost.

The only tough point in making a good buying decision with plasma is....everyone that sells plasma will tell you that their system excells at everything listed above! It is best to listen on these forums to users experiences...and make decisions that way.

It is kind of like being in a strange town and looking for a good restaurant......should you pick the one with a few cars in the lot, or the one that looks crowded? I pick the crowded one! The crowd hangs out where the good food is!

Jim Colt

well, my hypertherm 1000 doesnt last anywheres as long as you are stating. The fine cut consumables will last 200 - 400 feet, the 60 amp heads even less thru 3/16" PLATE. oCCASIONALLY ILL BE LUCKY AND HAVE A SET OF CONSUMABLES THAT LAST 1000 FEET.... but thats real rare. I use air from a compressor, does that make a difference??? i have a dynatorch system with laser height finder so the head NEVER touches the metal. alsl have voltage sensing height unit so head never contacts table.

 

[jimcolt]

An inverter machine will have either MosFets (metal oxide semiconductorfield effect transistor) or IGBT's (Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor). It will have one or the other.....with the IGBT generally being the switching device use in more modern, more reliable inverters. IGBT's can handle fast switching speeds at high power levels with a good affinity for surviving electical noise and voltage spikes.....FET's are not so good. Most of the recent Chinese imports are touting their recent change to IGBT's. For the record...Hypertherm started using IGBT's about 15 to 17 years ago in it's inverters. Cost shoul not be an object if you are looking to build better reliability.

Jim Colt

Harbor Freight might be an exception to this rule regarding plasma cutters. Or at least, I'm about to find out if they are. I purchased an HF plasma cutter, has pilot arc, 40 amp, and I've found a guy who repairs them and sells parts. The 95136 HF plasma is a true inverter machine, no MOSFETS or IBGT stuff that blows up like on the other chinese plasmas. Also, I've found Harbor Freight to be very good regarding parts, I've got other HF machines and got parts very quickly and cheaply. As always with any HF products, do your homework first and find out what everybody else says about them. Read the reviews. After reading a lot of good reviews, I decided to go ahead. I'm a hobby/farm user, and won't be using it that much.

 

[jimcolt]

Your Powermax1000 is an air plasma....if you read my post again I was using an HPR260 which is a liquid cooled industrial oxygen plasma for comparison. I stated that many air plasma's will need consumable replacement after 200 feet of 1/2" cutting....if you are getting 1000' that is 5 times more than I suggested, so you are doing well! Newer techology...the Duramax retrofit torch that is made for your 1000 will increase your life even more.

The point is.....sometimes if you pay a bit more for well designed toches, consumables and plasma systems....they end up being less costly to operate...it is not just how cheap the consumables are to purchase!

Moisture in the air will affect life...many users put air dryers on their plasma air.

Jim Colt

well, my hypertherm 1000 doesnt last anywheres as long as you are stating. The fine cut consumables will last 200 - 400 feet, the 60 amp heads even less thru 3/16" PLATE. oCCASIONALLY ILL BE LUCKY AND HAVE A SET OF CONSUMABLES THAT LAST 1000 FEET.... but thats real rare. I use air from a compressor, does that make a difference??? i have a dynatorch system with laser height finder so the head NEVER touches the metal. alsl have voltage sensing height unit so head never contacts table.

 

[grsthegreat]

Your Powermax1000 is an air plasma....if you read my post again I was using an HPR260 which is a liquid cooled industrial oxygen plasma for comparison. I stated that many air plasma's will need consumable replacement after 200 feet of 1/2" cutting....if you are getting 1000' that is 5 times more than I suggested, so you are doing well! Newer techology...the Duramax retrofit torch that is made for your 1000 will increase your life even more.

The point is.....sometimes if you pay a bit more for well designed toches, consumables and plasma systems....they end up being less costly to operate...it is not just how cheap the consumables are to purchase!

Moisture in the air will affect life...many users put air dryers on their plasma air.


Jim Colt

I have a refrigerated dryer and a mechanical dryer attached.
Will this new head fit my dynatorch table (I have a straight head currently).

edit: oops, just found the link...i see its a straight head....but $750.00 for the head...i guess that will have to wait for a bit.

Thank you

 

[jimcolt]

Yes..the torch is the industry standard size....1-3/8" diameter with a 32 pich rack gear....which is removable if you don't need it. Here is a link to info on the Duramax torches....they are the same torches as used on the new Powermax65 and 85.

Your air is probably fine if your dryers and drains are functioning. 1000 feet of cut is exceptional.....you could do better with the new torch...but you are doing quite well now.

Jim Colt

 

[chuckgreen]

I have a refrigerated dryer and a mechanical dryer attached.

I have a homemade refrigerated dryer that works fine. I made a big coil out of a 30' piece of flexible copper tubing, and the coil sits inside a big plastic picnic cooler with ice inside. It cools the air, and then I run the air through another dryer/filter. It's worked well to keep a sandblaster from gumming up, it should work fine for the plasma as well.