How is this not robbery?

[Qapla]

I converted a "fixed-rate" price book for another industry (not the auto business) for use on the computer and they explained to me the reason for such pricing. They also explained the "formula" for coming up with the "hours" figured for the job.

The theory behind the fixed-rate is that people talk. When someone has a job done and the work is done right, they tell others about it. When they don't like something - they tell even more people.

It goes like this:

Actual hours-
One guy gets a job done and the job goes smooth. He is charged for the time and materials for his job. Another person gets "the same job" done and it does not go smooth. It takes twice as long. He is charged for time and materials and it cost him much more then the first guy. Now, since he paid more then his friend did for, as he see it - the same job, he tells all his friends what a rip-off the shop is.

Rate book-
Same scenario as above except that both guys are charged the same price. However, that price is halfway between what the first guy paid and the second guy paid. Since the first guy was satisfied with the job and the price (since he paid what he was quoted and was never quoted the actual time price) as was the second guy, they both give the shop high marks and send their friends to that shop.

The shop made the same money without angering a customer.

As for the formula:

When they are coming up with the flat-rates, they look at best and worst case scenarios. They (the rate book people) weight the prices toward the worst case even though they know that most quality shops will have many more best case repairs.

If a shop is smart, they will not tell someone they are basing the repair on "hours" and shop costs (towels, rags, cleaners, etc.) they will calculate the price that way but give a "repair cost" for the job. When the repair is done, the customer pays the agreed upon price and all are happy.

The problem comes when the service writer tells the customer that the shop is charging 3 hours and the customer knows full well the job only took 1 hour.

The other part of the problem is that the rate book companies over allow time for jobs they know full well will never take as long as they allow. When even a rookie mechanic can do a job in 3 hours while looking up the how-to's and asking some else what to do, and a qualified mechanic can do the job in 1 1/2 hours (even with probles) pricing the job for 5 hours by-the-book is just not right - and many of the rates in the book are written that way.

This, of course, is just my 22 cents worth (that is 2 cents in real time)

 

[Deere Dude]

92 Ford F-150 wiper moto,r two plug. Thats all.

3 bolts, about 6 screws, raise the cowling, remove the clip on the shaft, replace motor, insert clip, screw the cowling back down, and done.

This post was not meant to rile anybody, but if I ruffled anybody's feathers, I am truly sorry and I hope you have a better day.

I am happy that I got the wipers fixed, but I will never like the price, even though some say that it is general practice.

I had a flat rate on an alternator change in a car of 1 hour. The mechanic/owner said that's what the rate books are for. I looked at it and it didn't seem that difficult, even though I'm not a mechanic, so I went down the road and got the alternator and installed it myself in 20 minutes. Would I be wild if he changed it in 10 minutes. Darn tootin' I know I would have been charged 1 hour with the book as a guideline to make it fair for the customer and the shop.
If he would have broken a bolt off, would he have charged for 1 hour. Heck no. He would have charged a couple extra hours for things beyond what the flat rate book says. I know flat rates aren't set for the perfect conditions, but if nothing out of the ordinary happens, give the customer a break.
His rates are set to cover his mechanic, insurance and to keep the lights on. I feel I would have been gouged by the garage, just as JJ does.

If he did the job and I got charged an hour, I would have felt better if the mechanic would have just done the job and puttered around and washed the car and took his time and took the whole hour. But now I don't trust those flat rate books.

In JJ's case, the garage should have only charged for the time it took even if most posts don't agree. The garage is still making a good profit on the time taken.

I had a cat driver working on a septic system in tandem with a big hoe. I had the hoe off doing something else for a little while, maybe a half hour, and when I walked back I saw the cat driver sitting back in his seat with his legs up on the dash with his hands in the back of his head. He said he was waiting for the hoe. I asked him if he was getting paid by the hour, and of course he said yes. I told him to just drive back and forth if the meter is running. In fact that has happened a few times by backhoe and cat drivers. If they want to charge me less for not working, stop the meter, I would be happy with that, but if they are getting paid by the hour, keep the tracks moving and work the hour.

 

[J_J]

I thought this was kind of interesting in the software for labor rate .

[ Multiple Labor Rates - Have up to 4 different labor rates ]

What is that all about?

one rate for friends

another rate for good looking women

another rate for avg Joe

another rate for someone you don't like.

 

[beppington]

I thought this was kind of interesting in the software for labor rate .

[ Multiple Labor Rates - Have up to 4 different labor rates ]

What is that all about?

one rate for friends

another rate for good looking women

another rate for avg Joe

another rate for someone you don't like.

Some more:

Another for jobs you like

Another for jobs you don't like

 

[JDgreen227]

Some more:

Another for jobs you like

Another for jobs you don't like

I thought is was like this:

Regular rate is $50 an hour.

If you watch me work, $75 an hour.

If you help me work, $100 an hour

If you botched it up by working on it first, $150 an hour.

 

[Ford tractor]

You get an estimate to do a job, and the labor is, say $45 per hour, and maybe the mechanic gets $18 per hour . They say that the time to install a wiper motor is three hours.

Now you watch them install the motor in one hour, and watch them work on others vehicles during your so called time.

Your argument is only valid if you agree to pay them actual time & materials at the quoted rate. What you have (if it's the same as 99.99% of them) is a firm fixed quote to do the job when it takes up to the estimated maximum time -- not a per hour T&M estimate. You are on the hook to pay at least the quoted amount, unless it goes OVER the estimated time.

If you don't like to pay for simple things like that -- do what I do and turn your own wrenches.

 

[mostly_gas]

JJ what makes you think the $45/hr is any more accurate than the 3 hr time?

 

[FredH]

Try going to my shop for my semi , $90 hour labor . They have a time clock and never touch another job in that shop without first punching out on original work order . They have ran several computer trouble shooting programs with out even charging me .
We just budgeted $15,000 for an in frame , after all said and done bill came to $9,400 . Only 1 new injector needed but main savings was labor . We went with a rebuilt head with our good core and the labor saved rather than spending time rebuilding original head was a huge time and money factor . Still chasing a sensor demon in the EGR system , thus we have ran the codes a couple of times to see what way to go next .
I also get great deals on parts , They either really like me for being a loyal customer or they like my money .:thumbsup:

Something I found out though the other day , They work on all brands of trucks and engines . They did Warranty work on a Cummins , took them 6.4 hours to fix . Cummins would only pay them 3.5 hours .
Cummins sent them the truck as their local shop was backed up . So basically they got hosed . Detroit and Cat are just the opposite . Takes them 6.4 hours , they get paid 6.4 hours .

Fred H.

 

[garcol]

This thread has me really irked off.
Dealerships and repair shops are nothing but thieves.
I have only dealt with them limited amount of times, and always when i got stumped and couldn't fix the problem. Guess what, each and every time they charged me there going rates and still could not fix the problems. Each time I do that I get reminded that even with their schooling and high tech gadgetry they are still thieves! And each time I end up fixing the problems myself.
Fixed rate shops will never see a dime of my money unless i am paying for a machine that does what is needed, (machining work etc).
Time and material is only fair and if your very good I will pay higher hourly rates.
These fixed rate shops that have mechanics making good money are mostly hacks and although they may beat the clock for fixed rate repair most of them do piss poor quality work that wont last.
Basically in a nutshell "If you want it done and done right, you have to do it yourself".
Of course there are exceptions to this rule. But in my opinion I repeatedly see this as the only truth that holds.
This is of course my humble opinion only.

 

[Bird]

This thread has me really irked off.
Dealerships and repair shops are nothing but thieves.
I have only dealt with them limited amount of times, and always when i got stumped and couldn't fix the problem. Guess what, each and every time they charged me there going rates and still could not fix the problems. Each time I do that I get reminded that even with their schooling and high tech gadgetry they are still thieves! And each time I end up fixing the problems myself.
Fixed rate shops will never see a dime of my money unless i am paying for a machine that does what is needed, (machining work etc).
Time and material is only fair and if your very good I will pay higher hourly rates.
These fixed rate shops that have mechanics making good money are mostly hacks and although they may beat the clock for fixed rate repair most of them do piss poor quality work that wont last.
Basically in a nutshell "If you want it done and done right, you have to do it yourself".
Of course there are exceptions to this rule. But in my opinion I repeatedly see this as the only truth that holds.
This is of course my humble opinion only.

Yep, your opinion only, and so far from reality it's incredible. Of course there are good and bad in almost every occupation or profession, and there are those with more knowledge, training, and experience than others, but I think most of them are trying to do right. No, sorry about that; I don't think they are; I know they are. By the way, what's your occupation?