Which Stick Welder for a New Welder?

[Shield Arc]

Kinda interesting when you put it like that... I enjoy welding, and learning but when I think of 8 hours every day of hot, sweaty, smoke eating... well.. it does kinda lose it's luster.

James K0UA

When I first started out, I was always stuck in a splicing yard. Splicing pipe or beams, only time you lifted your hood was to move to another location, and if that took too long the foreman was right there wanting to know what was taking so long. Then I got good enough to build things, I loved that part of welding / fabrication. Got to do layout, fitting, and welding. Then I got really good at that, and never went back to the high production type jobs. Looking at life through a 2x4 piece of glass is not as glorious as some would believe!

 

[Soundguy]

unfortunately, reality is that if you're not prepping like a survivalist, you could be in a world of hurt.

well.. that's kinda my point.

I'm a realist.. thus I realize where it's all going. thus my aspect of being ready for long term survival has nothing to do with survivalist thinking.. it has to do with the foresight of being a realist.

soundguy

 

[Cacinok]

When I first started out, I was always stuck in a splicing yard. Splicing pipe or beams, only time you lifted your hood was to move to another location, and if that took too long the foreman was right there wanting to know what was taking so long. Then I got good enough to build things, I loved that part of welding / fabrication. Got to do layout, fitting, and welding. Then I got really good at that, and never went back to the high production type jobs. Looking at life through a 2x4 piece of glass is not as glorious as some would believe!

I've met few people who could say that their profession was all they thought it'd be. I can attest that being an attorney ain't as glamorous as it seemed. Sometimes I long for a job where I don't have to deal w/ people, but I can never get my wife to move to a lighthouse.

 

[dstig1]

Wow, this thread grew...

Seriously...grab an old thunderbolt or tombstone to start. You can get them dirt cheap and learn a bit. DC is nicer no doubt, but AC is not **** on earth by any stretch, and you can easily get more amps out of an AC welder for very little money. The basic Tombstone AC/DC is 225 AC but only about 135 DC - same unit, just different switch setting. If you want to run 1/8" 7104 or 7018 on DC you will push 130-140 amps in a lot of situations. That is the upper limit of DC on these units (135 on the tombstone and like 140 on the Everlast).

And if you try MIG at some point and decide, like many that MIG is so durn easy, why would I use stick? you can sell it for probably more than you bought it for and buy a MIG. Or better yet, keep the buzzbox and use it for the heavy stuff.

Stick welding is a lot harder than MIG, which is why they sell a jillion MIG units these days. But the benefit of learning it is that you get the ability to do heavy work more easily and cheaply, and it gives you a VERY good foundation of welding technique.

And seriously - it is a very rare hobbyist that will even come CLOSE to 20% duty cycle. By the time you get so good and so involved in welding that you will exceed 20%, you will have long since upgraded to much higher level welders for many other reasons. For a beginner, that is such a red herring as to be just plain silly.

 

[dstig1]

I Sometimes I long for a job where I don't have to deal w/ people, but I can never get my wife to move to a lighthouse.

Especially in Oklahoma :laughing:

 

[Cacinok]

Wow, this thread grew...

Seriously...grab an old thunderbolt or tombstone to start. You can get them dirt cheap and learn a bit. DC is nicer no doubt, but AC is not **** on earth by any stretch, and you can easily get more amps out of an AC welder for very little money. The basic Tombstone AC/DC is 225 AC but only about 135 DC - same unit, just different switch setting. If you want to run 1/8" 7104 or 7018 on DC you will push 130-140 amps in a lot of situations. That is the upper limit of DC on these units (135 on the tombstone and like 140 on the Everlast).

And if you try MIG at some point and decide, like many that MIG is so durn easy, why would I use stick? you can sell it for probably more than you bought it for and buy a MIG. Or better yet, keep the buzzbox and use it for the heavy stuff.

Stick welding is a lot harder than MIG, which is why they sell a jillion MIG units these days. But the benefit of learning it is that you get the ability to do heavy work more easily and cheaply, and it gives you a VERY good foundation of welding technique.

And seriously - it is a very rare hobbyist that will even come CLOSE to 20% duty cycle. By the time you get so good and so involved in welding that you will exceed 20%, you will have long since upgraded to much higher level welders for many other reasons. For a beginner, that is such a red herring as to be just plain silly.

I'll be looking for the tombstone or equivalent miller, but I'm itchin' to get going and if I don't find something soon, I'll probably go w/ the everlast.

I've been practicing on a mig for the last month or two and it is indeed easy, but I'm strange and like a challenge.

 

[Cacinok]

Especially in Oklahoma :laughing:

indeed. we do have one functioning light house.

 

[Soundguy]

And seriously - it is a very rare hobbyist that will even come CLOSE to 20% duty cycle. By the time you get so good and so involved in welding that you will exceed 20%, you will have long since upgraded to much higher level welders .

IMHO, I think that may have been a poorly thought out ..or poorly worded post.

considering duty cycle is a on time and off time issue. it is VERY easy for someone on a high am setting, where duty cycle may be low, to exceede or meet the machines duty cyle and not be done with the project.

If you have 10' of bead to lay.. and have a low duty cycle, you may be waiting a while in between runs of rods.

I weld around 90-100a usually on my hobart. that's right at 100% duty cycle on that machine.

When I'm doing fab work building somehting.. I can sure tell you it's nice to burn a rod, grab another and keep going untill I'm done with the project vs saying.. woops.. I've run a few rods.. gotta lett the welder cool off 8 minutes since I've used it 2 minutes.. forget that. I got better things to do than wait for unproductoive duty cycles.

the few instances where I have welded at the high end of my machies capability in the 200+a range it was for small joints in thick metal and the 10-20% duty cycle was fine as the job was finished before the DC was up.

getting a different welder was never even a thought or option....


soundguy

 

[Cacinok]

forget that. I got better things to do than wait for unproductoive duty cycles.

soundguy

amen to that. I'm unproductive enough on my own w/o a machine slowing me down.

 

[dstig1]

It's an opinion Soundguy, but I'll stand by it as representative of new welders. Also - Many weldments are small sections, not straight runs of 10' of bead. We ain't building bridges here... The work I did on my grapple is a good example. No joint took more than 2 rods. Then it was time to reorient and figure out what to hit next. If I was hitting 5% I would have been lucky. And again the point is learning. You learn what to do, then you figure out what is next.

If you decide for the work you are doing MIG is Da Bomb then go buy a good one, and sell off the buzzbox. You will be able to sell the buzzbox in 10 seconds, but frankly you will probably not be able to sell the import in any reasonable time frame except for 10 cents on the dollar. No offense, Mark, but that is just the reality I see on CL. Heck, I'm trying to sell a serious Thermal Arc Welder and get very little response, mainly because it isn't Miller or Lincoln, IMHO. And TA is well known in the industrial circles, whereas the imports are not well known or accepted (and I'll at least give you a "yet" on the end of that, even if the jury is still out).

The duty cycle is not well defined on the specs for the low end welders like this one. It says 20% at 225A AC. You will never run 225A AC. The most you will ever run is 150-160A or thereabouts. If you get to the point where you really need 225A more than once, you will have learned a lot and be more serious about what you are doing and upgrade your unit by then.

I stand by my comments for the OP, and do so from knowledge of "BTDT."