twoone
Silver Member
Agreed some how you have some information that I did get nor receive such as to the load and out put, I used the assumption that was in his original post that he had crashed and burned and had no idea as to why or what his load was and that he was going to replace it possibly with a after-mart assy. And at that time of a unknown type and size and was very undecided and confused I was only trying to put him on a straight road that why I kept asking him what his load factor was going to be before I could help him and I never got that answer for with out knowing it I could not prescribe anything. In my mind using the info. that he sent he implied that they maybe lights that would have a draw exceeding a 55watt load. PaulAre you implying that I did not also graduate with my engineering degree? I hope not? because you would be wrong.
Lets look at this practically, since that seems to be the chaper you liked the most.
1, his tractor's charge system is extremely anemic. There's no point in running more load than the tractor can handle on a steady basis. Given that. lamp switches currently in production, and, well.. installed at the fatory are fine for his application.
Relays are for running less copper, and running laods impractical on switches.. IE.. you don't want a battery disconnect sized switch in the dash for lamps.
however.. dealing with the small load he has.. a regular off the shelf lamp switch will be fine.
ford engineers though so as well.
based on his application, intended load and statements.. adding a relay would just serve to spend money, and complicate the electrical system for the next time someone tries to troubleshoot it.
IMHO.. if he had a meltdown earlier.. it was misswireing, vs improper ratings. even an overloaded switch won't let the magic smoke out imediatly.. based upon the description of the failure.. I'd say it was not fused to protect the wireing either, of which, the switch rating would be a part of too.
now that's practical application... not.. how much technology can we cram into a 48 year old tractor..
soundguy
For the record I had planned to use (2) 55 watt headlights = 110 watts, plus a 55 watt light on the rear, = 165 watts total. Now, for that application, what size wire do I need, what size fuse do I need, and what size switch do I need, if I do not install a relay, and the same questions if I DO install a relay?
Soundguy
Old Timer
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- Mar 11, 2002
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
Ok.. probably mentioned this 3 times now.. lets do the math.
165w
we will, for the sake of argument assume 12v as supply voltage.
165/12 = 13.75a
A STANDARD 20a rated push/pull 2 position headlamp switch is MORE than sufficient for this.
I would fuse using a 15a SB fuse. though a 20a FA would not be out of the question.
your front headlamp run will be 110w or 9.16a 14awg stranded wire will be sufficient for that.
you can string a line from the switch to the first lamp power lead, then to the snd lmap power lead, or you can run a seperate wire from the lamp switch terminals to each lamp power lead in front, and you will be running a seperate wire to the rear lamp.
the relay issue? a relay and a small switch will cost MORE than a simply headlamp switch.. and wire size won't change, nor will fuse size. in addition.. your simple switch may not have a built in fuse holder as the proper headlamp switch will, PLUS you would have to fuse the relay.. thus.. you would need to buy a relay, an switch and 2 fuse holders to replace the proper headlamp switch with integral fuse holder.
Ford ran the lamps just like that.. switch, and 3 lamps.... no relay, and no thumb sized copper wire.
PS, if this is a gasser 2000, figuring in ignition current and a quoiescent current to top the battery off after running for a while, and you are at the limit if the steady state of your charge syste,. right after startup there will be a larger draw to re-charge the depleted battery.. this is fine as it would not exceede the max charge output. if a diesel, then you actually have about 4more amps of load to play with, if needed, IE.. marker or flashers.. etc.
when I said 48ys old, for some reason i was thinking of my own prior model 2000 I just finished refurbishing last weekend.
recap
15a fa or 20a sb fuse
20a rated push / pull headlamp switch with integral fuse holder, and at most, a 25' spool of 14awg wire, if you intend to run seperate grounds to the lamps vs using the sheet metal, and if you run individual strands with no chaining...
soundguy
165w
we will, for the sake of argument assume 12v as supply voltage.
165/12 = 13.75a
A STANDARD 20a rated push/pull 2 position headlamp switch is MORE than sufficient for this.
I would fuse using a 15a SB fuse. though a 20a FA would not be out of the question.
your front headlamp run will be 110w or 9.16a 14awg stranded wire will be sufficient for that.
you can string a line from the switch to the first lamp power lead, then to the snd lmap power lead, or you can run a seperate wire from the lamp switch terminals to each lamp power lead in front, and you will be running a seperate wire to the rear lamp.
the relay issue? a relay and a small switch will cost MORE than a simply headlamp switch.. and wire size won't change, nor will fuse size. in addition.. your simple switch may not have a built in fuse holder as the proper headlamp switch will, PLUS you would have to fuse the relay.. thus.. you would need to buy a relay, an switch and 2 fuse holders to replace the proper headlamp switch with integral fuse holder.
Ford ran the lamps just like that.. switch, and 3 lamps.... no relay, and no thumb sized copper wire.
PS, if this is a gasser 2000, figuring in ignition current and a quoiescent current to top the battery off after running for a while, and you are at the limit if the steady state of your charge syste,. right after startup there will be a larger draw to re-charge the depleted battery.. this is fine as it would not exceede the max charge output. if a diesel, then you actually have about 4more amps of load to play with, if needed, IE.. marker or flashers.. etc.
when I said 48ys old, for some reason i was thinking of my own prior model 2000 I just finished refurbishing last weekend.
recap
15a fa or 20a sb fuse
20a rated push / pull headlamp switch with integral fuse holder, and at most, a 25' spool of 14awg wire, if you intend to run seperate grounds to the lamps vs using the sheet metal, and if you run individual strands with no chaining...
soundguy
Okay Soundguy, that sounds like the plan I'll go with. If Ford didn't use a relay originally, then I don't see where I need to either. I apologize for getting you and Twoone into an argument. I never meant for that to happen. Twoone, if you're reading this, I apologize to you as well. I appreciate all your input, but in this case, I think the "no relay" is more practical for me since it originally didn't have one anyway. Thanks to all of you for your help.
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 51,575
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
ps.. im not sure which types of lamps you are getting.. many will only have 1 wire, and the mounting stud is ground, SOME have 2 wires. on the 2 wire incandescent jobs, designate one as ground and the other power.. power to the switch.. and ground? can either go to the sheet metal ( not what I call a good ground unless it's all shiney new like it left the factory ).. or run a wire from a good ground to the bas of the lamp, or to it's ground wire if available.
a good ground can be the bat ground clamp, the bat ground strap location, or a bolt into the chassie that has a good path thru non painted surfaces to the ground strap. plenty of locations.. be creative.
soundguy
a good ground can be the bat ground clamp, the bat ground strap location, or a bolt into the chassie that has a good path thru non painted surfaces to the ground strap. plenty of locations.. be creative.
soundguy
twoone
Silver Member
Bobby R: No apology needed I think sound guy is ok" and I would be glad to work with him any time he's on track and knows your system . I was just assuming that you were going to a larger system (you know what assuming means) I now its only a 55 watt. Only thing I could add is you can use any simple 20 amp 0n and off switch with placing the fuse in line if you can't replace the factory sw for the front lights there quite common and easy to find. best of luck. Paul
Thanks Paul. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear about what I intended to use, and I too guess I might have just "assumed" everyone would know that I would use 55 watt lights on my application. Anyway, sorry again for any misunderstandings I may have caused. For the record, I think both you and Soundguy are incredibly knowledgable, about such things!