The World According to Monsanto

[Don87]

Nutritionally I can't fathom how GMO food would be a problem unless it contained things that were "not naturally found" on this earth. Our bodies (and the planet's flaura and fauna) evolved in the presence of the elements that are already here so "splicing" them together still is using the same elements and our bodies should recognize them and know how to deal with them (as should nature).

It's true that I am a bit skeptical of dietary ingredients that are out of balance with each other or not in the presence of the co-ingredients that our bodies are used to seeing (ie: vitamin c from fruit vs vitamin c made in a factory) but from a scientific point of view vitamin c is vitamin c so there really isn't an argument. To me though, somehow it seems right that my body would recognize the fruit and absorb the vitamin c alongside the other bits of the fruit more efficiently than vitamin c in a capsule ingested without the presence of the other bits of the fruit. Maybe just emotion though...

The reason I said I don't like monstanto is simply that I worry about losing biodiversity if the man made plants or animals get loose. I worry that the evolutionary balance may be negatively impacted if the man made things get loose (example: such as farmed salmon that don't know how to migrate and breed).

All said, managing the science is more the challenge for us silly humans because of our greed and emotional responses to things. Banning the science makes no sense unless we wan't to go back to 50 year average lifespans. It's like a gun, gun's are OK as long as they are used properly.

(had to get firearms into this you know...)

'nuff said.

You made some very good points for both sides of the debate. I'm basically in the same camp as you, although I personally would have liked it better if the power of the Presidency wouldn't have been used.

 

[Don87]

Awhile back someone said "you can chose to eat GMO's, or not. I choose not."

Unless you are a "hippy-homesteader-self-sufficient-off-the-grid" type, I suspect you do NOT have a choice of what you eat.

And there is the problem. We all share just this one planet, and your toxic waste/pollution/GMO products are also mine, if I want them or not. I choose not. . .

We really don't have a choice if one thinks about it. GMO crops are grown all around most people, so cross-pollination is an issue.

If you eat wild meat only, they roam and forage, so GMO's will be in them also.

 

[vsteel]

I said that an elected official deemed that the GMO seeds, were the same as natural seed. And that executive order has kept proper testing from being done to food derived from those seeds.

Not to mention that there were patents issued for the seeds. Patents are only issued for things that are signifigantly different from something else.

To anyone that understands a little about science, patents, and politics.......that smells to high heaven.

The seeds had been tested by the FDA for years. The only thing the executive order did was stop the FDA from wasting more taxpayer money. You need to realize there are 100s of independent groups still testing. Other groups can test besides the FDA. Testing or not by the FDA has no bearing on all of the other groups and universities doing testing.

PATENTS ARE ISSUED FOR TRIVIAL AND REDUNDANT THINGS ALL OF THE TIME!!! Look up Sun and how they had contests to see who could patent the most trivial and silly thing. Look up who has the patent on toast, yes the kind you eat. If you want an easy example to look up check out the issues with software patents.

Science and patents, really you need to look up the scientific method. There are outlines of how you have to conduct tests and keep track of your data for publishing. You really need to understand this so when you read an article you can tell when someone is giving you good data or they are full of BS. If experiments don't give full data or not enough about them they can be repeated, then someone is trying to hide something.

 

[Combustix]

Awhile back someone said "you can chose to eat GMO's, or not. I choose not."

Unless you are a "hippy-homesteader-self-sufficient-off-the-grid" type, I suspect you do NOT have a choice of what you eat.

And there is the problem. We all share just this one planet, and your toxic waste/pollution/GMO products are also mine, if I want them or not. I choose not. . .

Day I made that statement as you can see by the debate between farmswithjunk and don87 on gmo's it still comes down to a choice. I am not a hippy off the grid type though I suppose it would be good. Though after watching food Inc and starting to look into where our food is coming from. I.E. Monsanto, Cargill and the lot, the Mrs and I raise our own rabbit ducks chicken and goat for meat milk and eggs. We raised Cornish cross chickens the first time or gmo chicken. The wife calls them Frankenchicken, they are just not right. We raise heritage type now and well our chickens actually have flavor. Im sure all the university studies get their grant money from the chemical giants. I do know that gmo tomatoes are tasteless and will remain on the shelf for weeks unlike a natural tomato which has a very short shelf life but tastes great. Again which do you prefer to eat. We source a lot of food from local farmers and neighbors who raise natural animals, vegetables and whatever else we can find. Since we have done this over the last three years not I the wife or the kids has gotten so much as a cold or any type of illness. I can't make that claim for what we ate prior to that. Though the argument is its okay for you I find interesting as gmo has been around for what 20 years or so. How long has tobacco been around before they finally said well maybe it's not the best thing for you. I am not against genetically modified food I just prefer not to eat it.

 

[DAY]

Comustix, you are preaching to the choir- but it is a mighty small congregation!
I did what you are doing, back in the late 70's. Started up a raw milk goat dairy, and wound up with the largest one in PA.

Most cannot do what you and your wife are doing, but everybody can shop local, support organic, and plant a garden.

 

[Wooddust]

Monsanto wants to control the world's food supply through control of the seed used for food crops, ie "Terminator" seeds, which means they don't actually produce viable seeds of their own. They want to have farmers buy new seed every year from them...very profitable for them, eh.

This is one of the most uninformed and stupid posts I have seen in quite some time. Do you people sit in dark rooms and make this crap up?

 

[Wooddust]

I heard a story on the radio a while back about GMO wheat. The person on the radio said that GMO wheat, when baked into bread, is no longer a fiber.

He said it changes to a starch or something, and the type of starch it turns into actually causes fat to be stored in the human body.

Is it true? I dunno, but what I can say, is that Ive seen people gaining weight while eating wheat bread.

Is there a connection, dunno.

The only thing I know for sure is that the executive order has stopped the FDA from testing and tracking these types of things for over 22 years now.

Wheat. It is not a fiber, its a plant. It makes seed. Seed contains starch. And fiber. Starch does not change to poison. The fiber, if it is whole wheat, becomes poop. Eat a loaf of non gmo wheat bread...get fat. Eat a loaf of GMO wheat bread, you become the undead. Zombies.

Do not mess with the undead or haints.

 

[Don87]

The seeds had been tested by the FDA for years. The only thing the executive order did was stop the FDA from wasting more taxpayer money. You need to realize there are 100s of independent groups still testing. Other groups can test besides the FDA. Testing or not by the FDA has no bearing on all of the other groups and universities doing testing.

PATENTS ARE ISSUED FOR TRIVIAL AND REDUNDANT THINGS ALL OF THE TIME!!! Look up Sun and how they had contests to see who could patent the most trivial and silly thing. Look up who has the patent on toast, yes the kind you eat. If you want an easy example to look up check out the issues with software patents.

Science and patents, really you need to look up the scientific method. There are outlines of how you have to conduct tests and keep track of your data for publishing. You really need to understand this so when you read an article you can tell when someone is giving you good data or they are full of BS. If experiments don't give full data or not enough about them they can be repeated, then someone is trying to hide something.

You and FarmWithJunk keep repeating this, so could you please point to the studies that have been ongoing for the past 22 years, to see if there are any long term effects on humans that eat GMO foods on a daily basis. When you find this study, could you please make sure it has the answers to the pertinent questions that have been asked by others?

 

[Don87]

Wheat. It is not a fiber, its a plant. It makes seed. Seed contains starch. And fiber. Starch does not change to poison. The fiber, if it is whole wheat, becomes poop. Eat a loaf of non gmo wheat bread...get fat. Eat a loaf of GMO wheat bread, you become the undead. Zombies.

Do not mess with the undead or haints.

Is it or isn't it, you sound entirely confused.

Maybe the GMO's have shrunk your brain size as the one study concluded.
Have you had your liver size tested lately?


Or maybe the GMO's are working on me, and I just don't have the capability of understanding your 'plain english'.

 

[Wooddust]

Is it or isn't it, you sound entirely confused.

Maybe the GMO's have shrunk your brain size as the one study concluded.
Have you had your liver size tested lately?

Liver size?

 

[Don87]

Liver size?

Your question is typical of someone that enters a discussion, and has no clue what is going on.

Thank you, you made my point.

 

[Wooddust]

Oh please. Don't resort to 3rd grade debate tactics. The looniness of the Oh My God Monsanto is evil crowd makes the 9-11 was Bush, Kennedy is alive (or killed by aliens) and other nutjob theories seem sane.

 

[Don87]

Oh please. Don't resort to 3rd grade debate tactics. The looniness of the Oh My God Monsanto is evil crowd makes the 9-11 was Bush, Kennedy is alive (or killed by aliens) and other nutjob theories seem sane.

Show one post where I said that.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I just don't have the capability of understanding.

WE HAVE A BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Don87]

WE HAVE A BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!

You came back with the studies I trust?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

You came back with the studies I trust?

Here's a suggestion....Enroll in a good university ag program, go after a degree in crop science, maybe even a Masters, do the required field studies, educate yourself, read FACTUAL test data from sources who have NO agenda, learn how a REAL independent impartial study is done, involve yourself in a couple legitimate research programs on gmo safety, THEN bring yourself back and we'll discuss this further. Until then, debating someone who hasn't a flippin' CLUE has become SO boring.....

I've all but completed my degree. I've done the work. Yep....I grow gmo crops. I have a family. Kids...Grand kids...even a great grand child now....I have NO reservations about their consuming gmo based foods. Not because I grow them, but instead, because I've seen more than enough to know they're as safe, maybe even SAFER than non gmo's.

Non gmo's have been found to contain allergens, have safety issues, and when consumed in extremely high concentrations, cause issues with organs, ect....If it takes a presidential decree to stop wasting government resources, and to stop hysteria mongering, so be it....There is ONE instance where the office of the president has actually done something USEFUL for a change.

 

[Don87]

Here's a suggestion....Enroll in a good university ag program, go after a degree in crop science, maybe even a Masters, do the required field studies, educate yourself, read FACTUAL test data from sources who have NO agenda, learn how a REAL independent impartial study is done, involve yourself in a couple legitimate research programs on gmo safety, THEN bring yourself back and we'll discuss this further. Until then, debating someone who hasn't a flippin' CLUE has become SO boring.....

I've all but completed my degree. I've done the work. Yep....I grow gmo crops. I have a family. Kids...Grand kids...even a great grand child now....I have NO reservations about their consuming gmo based foods. Not because I grow them, but instead, because I've seen more than enough to know they're as safe, maybe even SAFER than non gmo's.

Non gmo's have been found to contain allergens, have safety issues, and when consumed in extremely high concentrations, cause issues with organs, ect....If it takes a presidential decree to stop wasting government resources, and to stop hysteria mongering, so be it....There is ONE instance where the office of the president has actually done something USEFUL for a change.

This has been the sticking point the entire time, my friend.

Your initial claim was that it didn't happen, my claim was that it did. (and it did happen the way I said id did).

I have repeatedley said, I'm not a scientist, I don't have a clue as to the safety of GMO foods, you for some reason, thought that I did.

But I can tell ya one thing, this thread got me to researching a little. And one of the first things I find out is that Monsanto lobbyists were given appointments to the FDA, and USDA................WTF.

The second thing I found out was that Monsanto did actually create, and put into production, strains of GMO's that were later found to be toxic, and eventually destroyed. But along with the destruction of the crops, was also the destruction of Monsanto's own scientific studies, and documentation of the toxic GMO strain. WTF number 2

No wonder people are upset over Monsanto.


EDIT: I know you grow GMO crops, and I don't fault you, nor blame you in any way, shape, nor form. Gmo's are easier, cheaper with 2 to 3 times the productivity. If I were a farmer, I would probably do the same.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

This has been the sticking point the entire time, my friend.

Your initial claim was that it didn't happen, my claim was that it did. (and it did happen the way I said id did).

I have repeatedley said, I'm not a scientist, I don't have a clue as to the safety of GMO foods, you for some reason, thought that I did.

But I can tell ya one thing, this thread got me to researching a little. And one of the first things I find out is that Monsanto lobbyists were given appointments to the FDA, and USDA................WTF.

The second thing I found out was that Monsanto did actually create, and put into production, strains of GMO's that were later found to be toxic, and eventually destroyed. But along with the destruction of the crops, was also the destruction of Monsanto's own scientific studies, and documentation of the toxic GMO strain. WTF number 2

No wonder people are upset over Monsanto.


EDIT: I know you grow GMO crops, and I don't fault you, nor blame you in any way, shape, nor form. Gmo's are easier, cheaper with 2 to 3 times the productivity. If I were a farmer, I would probably do the same.

The ONLY thing that outstrips your ignorance on the subject is your obvious unwillingness to learn the facts.

NO ONE denied there was top level government involvement in stopping the continued witch hunt mentality within the FDA. (Fueled by anti-gmo lobbyist's and activist's, who by the way, hold several high ranking positions within the FDA....So why is THAT ok, but when GMO advocates lobby and hold jobs within the FDA it's viewed (by you) as some sort of conspiracy???) The ONLY problem was that this waste of resources was allowed to take place at all. What was "denied" is your bogus claims/insinuations that this is some sort of covert action to poison the worlds populous, when in fact it was simply reigning in a rogue government agency that has a tendency to overstep their boundries at our expense. The anti gmo factions have you barking up the wrong tree with their carefully orchestrated dis-information campaign. I simply denied the nature of the Presidential orders in the misguided context you tried (and failed) to paint. There again, you need to drop the preconceived notions and read facts as they are, as opposed to CONTRIVED "facts" as someone would like you to believe for the benefit of their agenda.

In spite of the propaganda handed out by anti gmo factions, it wasn't the FDA's place to do the testing in the first place. (USDA is tasked with testing crop science....) And USDA testing was continued and still exists to this day in the form of sanctioned testing performed at a number of top Ag University programs. Programs funded in part by contributions from BOTH sides of the issue.

And with the consistency between parties in office, both of which have seldom shown a willingness to think along the same lines, wouldn't you suspect the office of the President just might have access to better, more accurate information than YOU do?

And NO....I NEVER "thought you did"....It was obvious from the get go that you have NO CLUE what you are talking about. There in lies the rub.....The vast majority of "mouths" flapping on the side of anti gmo's have no clue, and have been led down the garden path by the agendas of special interest groups and their ridiculous unsubstantiated claims/bad science/lies.

"Monsanto lobbyist's" just happen to be well known, well respected scientist's in the field.....Would you prefer we hire a flippin' TRUCK DRIVER for top level USDA/FDA positions....Or just ANTI-GMO lobbyist's and activist's? Have a problem with a level playing field? It's VERY common for "experts" within the industry to move from place to place. There are even a couple ex "big players" from Greenpeace now in positions of authority at Monsanto....See how this works...?

You need to research the subject OBJECTIVELY, and quit relying on National Enquirer/Jerry Springer mentality web sites for your skewed information. Parroting their hysteria mongering nonsense is making you look the fool.

 

[Don87]

And NO....I NEVER "thought you did"....It was obvious from the get go that you have NO CLUE what you are talking about. There in lies the rub.....The vast majority of "mouths" flapping on the side of anti gmo's have no clue, and have been led down the garden path by the agendas of special interest groups and their ridiculous unsubstantiated claims/bad science/lies.


You need to research the subject OBJECTIVELY, and quit relying on National Enquirer/Jerry Springer mentality web sites for your skewed information. Parroting their hysteria mongering nonsense is making you look the fool.

As I was searching, (not that it matters), I kept coming across a familiar term.........."A consensus of scientists".

Same term used by the Global Warming crowd.

Then a little more searching turned up the fact that every scientist that does say anything against GMO's is blackballed, riduculed, fired from their jobs.

Same as with the Global Warming

Then I look at your reaction, to anyone that dares say anything against GMO's

Ridicule, denegrate, chastise, blackball.

Same as the Global Warming Crowd.

Probably isn't much sense in posting the newest studies I did find, because with your mentality, you would tell me I was a fruitcake, and that you know more than those scientists that actually did the studies.

The tide of GMO's may be turning, if what I read is true. But considering the fact that "I'm only a truck driver", what do I know about it.

There is one thing I do know for sure,

There is no way on God's Green Earth that you sir, would ever have the capability of looking at any evidence that is against GMO's.

You have proven that you are totally 'one sided' in the debate.

 

[zonta223]

Let's see a large chemical company controls the seed which grows crops resistant to herbicides and produces bountiful supplies to feed the world. This comes down to a personnel decision. You can eat their food or not. I choose not.

You can only choose if you have truth in labeling.
And what has been shown in Europe is that products labeled as "GMO" do not sell as well as "Natural" products. Which is why the chemical companies lobby so hard to stop labeling from saying "contains GMO"
I don't know if GMO products are dangerous or not.
What I do know is I would like to have the choice to eat them or not and I cannot do this without correct labeling.

Just my thoughts.

regards
Bob