Dipper Stick snapped in half

[tungularafishcamp]

You might wanna put what I call sisters or gussets on your main boom after you weld it up Eddie or I think I saw some on here calling them fish plates. Sometimes more is better!!

 

[Coyote machine]

Eddie,
This thread has been interesting to follow. Take it easy on yourself and your dad; stuff happens and things break. People are what is most important in life and we have to deal with the different way we do stuff. I know my dad and I did things vastly different and often did not communicate well, but again that's part of why life is a LONG process. Same now with my own son; he thinks he knows everything at age 20 and I know he's basically clueless but I have to accept that he's a young man now and the next gen coming into his own.

I think you made the best decision knowing your own particular situation. Now the shop can take the time to do it right and the repair will be as good as it's going to be and last as long as it can. Can one magnaflux a big piece of machinery like the boom for hidden fatigue or stress cracks? I seem to think there is some process that allows for that type of inspection so preemptive repairs can be done?

Maybe dad could be hired out to be an equipment crash tester to determine weaknesses prior to final production?!:thumbsup:

 

[Short Game]

Should the newly discovered cracks be stopped by drilling the ends and welding before new plate goes over them?

 

[Ford tractor]

I have been looking over the boom, and found two small, hairline cracks. I need to really clean it up and look closer. I'm debating wether to weld them up myself or call in a portable welder to do it up. Both cracks are less then three inches long, tight, and on opossite sides of the boom. Both welds will have to be on the side of the boom, so either straight up, or if I lower the boom, sideways.

I'll post pictures of the cracks in a little while.

Thank you,
Eddie

The whole machine should be inspected closely for cracks every 500 hours. Stick, boom, pivot, frame, etc. Every square inch of it. Doesn't take but 30-60 minutes. I do it the morning after giving a through pressure washing the prior evening to get down to paint or metal. That would have caught the growing cracks in the stick before it broke.

Adding internal and external plate to the stick will make the repair last a good long time. Just chalk it up and move along.

 

[tmajor]

Eddie, Might your father have been trying this? :laughing:

 

[JB4310]

I don't think you'd ever snap that boom in half, even with a gorilla operating it, cracks or not.

TV commercial film for American Tourister Luggage 1970 - YouTube

JB

 

[EddieWalker]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I'm not upset with my Dad. He works very hard is is extremly productive. Whatever the damage is over this, it's nothing compared to what he's accomplished in clearing the land and moving dirt. I could through the backhoe away and be money ahead when comparing it to what it would have cost to hire it out. And it's just another repair that will get done.

The reason it broke isn't from banging the bucket like a hammer, though that happens to a small degree. What he does is when digging, he extends the dipper and boom out as far as it will go. He has the bucket out as far as it will go and then he lowers it to the ground. Then he curls the bucket to dig and with everything extended, the downward pressure of the bucket lifts the back end of the backhow up off of the ground. It only goes up a few inches or so, but he does this almost every time. There are over 6,500 hours on it now, and half of those are from him doing just this every time he digs. He has taken out thousands of trees. Some are massive, others are just a foot to two thick. He has it on idle, or just above idle, so nothing is going very quickly. It's just that digging technique that he has and how he lifts the weight of the backhoe every time he digs.

What kills me is that every time he does it, he is surprised that it happened. I've told him about it, and explained that he needs to dig with the boom lifting upwards, not curling the bucket or pullling the dipper. When Im right there next to him and showing him how, he gets a full bucket every time and the outriggers stay in place and on the ground. He seems to get it, then when I come back, he's back to doing it his way.

Besides all the strain of lifting the backhoe off of the ground, he rarely gets a full bucket of dirt. In my mind, he's working twice as hard, taking twice as much time and putting ten times the wear on the machine then he has to. We are not in any rush, and he sticks with what he starts, which is why he gets so much done, but the damage is there and it really doesn't have to happen.

Knowing all this, I'm sure he will go right back to digging like he always has, and I'm going to just keep on trying to get him to try to do it my way, but realize it's probaby not going to happen. It will break again, but next time, it will be something else. It's just the way it is.

Eddie

 

[Danno1]

Should the newly discovered cracks be stopped by drilling the ends and welding before new plate goes over them?

Yes.


.

 

[Ford tractor]

What kills me is that every time he does it, he is surprised that it happened.

Knowing all this, I'm sure he will go right back to digging like he always has, and I'm going to just keep on trying to get him to try to do it my way, but realize it's probaby not going to happen. It will break again, but next time, it will be something else. It's just the way it is.

Eddie

Old dogs and new tricks, never the twain shall meet...

 

[jimmysisson]

Eddie I like that you are seeing the big picture here. Dad might find it hard to coordinate the lever motions to raise the boom and crowd the dipper at the same time, so he's done it his way. It's just steel, at the end of the day, and your attitude will keep getting the work done. He probably enjoys being productive and doing it his way.
Jim

 

[JFS2295]

And as mentioned before, altering the relief pressure setpoint may be a good course of action.

 

[wedge40]

Eddie this has been in our news for a while now. Maybe you needs these guys to fix your dipper stick.

I-64 bridge crack has been mended | The Indianapolis Star | indystar.com.

Wedgge

 

[two_bit_score]

Yesterday, I was taking down a dead (almost dead) water elm tree beside a creek. (Sorry, no pictures. . . I know, I know...) Anyhow, my LB75B has fairly new teeth and I was ripping out feeder roots so I could just ease the tree over. I found some roots 4"-6" in diameter and they were stong enough that I popped the front wheels and loader bucket into the air with my backhoe. I didn't have the bucket loaded, but my 4wd front end is a bit heavier than a 2wd. Anyhow, I used the teeth to "chew" the roots a bit so they were weak enough to pop out of the ground. Because of Eddie's problems, I was very conscious of the shock loads to the BH and especially the pivot bearings right at the tractor. Once I got the tree pushed over, it had huge root ball filled with dirt. I used the bucket to clear out some of the dirt and then got the bright idea to hook my bucket over the root ball near the base of the tree trunk and bury the teeth. Then, I turned my seat, lifted the outriggers, and drove my tractor while towing the tree and rootball impaled on the BH bucket. It made the front wheels so light that I couldn't steer, so I used brake steering to hold my line.

Looking back, I suspect my dipper was under some tremendous stress to break just like Eddie's. I think "stunts" like that and slamming the bucket into hard soil are probably pretty hard on these machines. It's so easy to move a control stick that you just don't realize how much force is being applied by the hydraulics.

Right. This thread has made me rethink some of the same issues.

 

[LD1]

Looking back, I suspect my dipper was under some tremendous stress to break just like Eddie's. I think "stunts" like that and slamming the bucket into hard soil are probably pretty hard on these machines. It's so easy to move a control stick that you just don't realize how much force is being applied by the hydraulics.

Not to mention the EXTREME pressure the cylinder and hydraulic lines were under. You are lucky you didnt blow a hose. I just discussed this in another thread about pulling with something attached the the BH. IF the hydraulics wont move it under its own power, pulling with the tractor will put the hydraulics under MORE pressure than your pump can generate and NO relief valve either. The tractor has more power pulling that the hoe. So I advise NOT pulling from any point on the hoe. Rather hook to something ridgid on the tractor NOT connected to a hydraulic cylinder:thumbsup:

 

[RickB]

Not to mention the EXTREME pressure the cylinder and hydraulic lines were under. You are lucky you didnt blow a hose. I just discussed this in another thread about pulling with something attached the the BH. IF the hydraulics wont move it under its own power, pulling with the tractor will put the hydraulics under MORE pressure than your pump can generate and NO relief valve either. The tractor has more power pulling that the hoe. So I advise NOT pulling from any point on the hoe. Rather hook to something ridgid on the tractor NOT connected to a hydraulic cylinder:thumbsup:

Backhoe valves have circuit relief valves in key circuits to prevent damage from external forces on those protected circuits.

 

[jinman]

IF the hydraulics wont move it under its own power, pulling with the tractor will put the hydraulics under MORE pressure than your pump can generate and NO relief valve either.

The tractor moved the stump easily with the hydraulics, but only about 10' at a time and I had to reset the position and outriggers. I decided to leave the bucket sticking in the stump and drive the tractor instead. It worked well with the limitation that I had to use brake steering. Had the stump hit something firm while in motion, it could have been a different thing, but I was just dragging it through the sand.

I wouldn't recommend this with a compact tractor and backhoe, but with my full-size TLB, it worked well.

 

[LD1]

Backhoe valves have circuit relief valves in key circuits to prevent damage from external forces on those protected circuits.

Not ALL backhoes have that. So my point is just that it isnt good practice to pull with something chained or hooked to the hoe.

And even those BH's that have them reliefs, their is no guarentee that they will vent fast enough to prevent rupturing a hose. It all just depends on the geometry of the hoe, where the load is hooked, and how fast you are pulling.

I am not trying to be a "nag" or "saftey police" here. Just pointing out the real and present danger that some people may never give a thought about. And that is the fact that almost ALL BH's and trackhoes have the ability to pull MORE under wheel or track power than they do with the hydraulics.

Blown hoses are no fun for anyone

 

[RickB]

Not ALL backhoes have that. So my point is just that it isnt good practice to pull with something chained or hooked to the hoe.

Your point is well taken so far as it goes.
The backhoe in question IS protected by circuit reliefs, as is any full size or CUT sized backhoe I have experience with. I suppose there are exceptions, but they would be few. There are only a handful of valve manufacturers, and any backhoe builder would be pretty foolish to look far and wide for an off-the-shelf valve without circuit protection in order to place their fabricated booms and sticks at risk.

You are welcome to provide examples of valves to support your statement. Valves installed on Woods, New Holland, Bradco, Kubota, Arps, John Deere, CaseIH and Kelly machines and without doubt other major brands support mine.

 

[LD1]

Your point is well taken so far as it goes.
The backhoe in question IS protected by circuit reliefs, as is any full size or CUT sized backhoe I have experience with. I suppose there are exceptions, but they would be few. There are only a handful of valve manufacturers, and any backhoe builder would be pretty foolish to look far and wide for an off-the-shelf valve without circuit protection in order to place their fabricated booms and sticks at risk.

You are welcome to provide examples of valves to support your statement. Valves installed on Woods, New Holland, Bradco, Kubota, Arps, John Deere, CaseIH and Kelly machines and without doubt other major brands support mine.

I am talking more of the older backhoes. 1960's:thumbsup:

 

[RickB]

I am talking more of the older backhoes. 1960's:thumbsup:

Well there certainly was a point where a couple engineers scratched their heads and said "Holy crap! We need some kind of protection here!" and developed circuit relief valves.