Hooking up PTO w/ Engine Running

[RoyJackson]

luckilly all my old fords have lever engagement. no new fangled push button or telepathic engagment options that some of you guys with new tractors have..


soundguy

I disconnected the telepathic engagement on my 4400 after the wifey took out an insurance policy on me...

 

[Soundguy]

ya know.. a while back my wifey doubled my life insurance policy..

lucky for me, about the only thing my wife is dangerous towards is a pile of salted corn chips, or a tube gate.. I think she enjoys backing into them.. as she's so good at it and practices often

if I'm not on later.. it may be because my wife read this thread..


soundguy

 

[Short Game]

This is the thing....... you get into the HABIT of doing something thinking its safe, and it may well be. Then you use that same old habit on a DIFFERENT machine AND the old habit is NOT safe on this machine.

That is exactly as I reported. This thread made me rethink my habits, based on experience and changes in engineering. I guess they save a good bit of money by eliminating the two stage clutch and putting the electric clutch farther down the line. I can't see where it is better for the operator, or the operation.

Also, they seem to have put a brake on the PTO. (To protect me from what?) The brake seems to be engaged whether the tractor is running or not, key on, or off. I cannot turn the disengaged PTO shaft by hand, and so, must either start the engine and bump the PTO switch (hit and miss, mostly miss), or manually rotate the implement's shaft, to get the splines lined up. It busts my poor fifth lumbar disc to get this done. Literally, a pain in the @$$.

I plan to cut a thin ring from an old female PTO coupler and braze a handle onto it to make a wrench to rotate the PTO when it's disengaged.

 

[Soundguy]

OR ad an ORC to th e pto if you have room.

past that I've always found a long srewdriver ( 1'+ ) thru a yoke will turn a shaft even on a batwing..

soundguy

 

[Dr_Zinj]

...
I doubt the engineers distrust the mechanisms that must fail for the PTO to start spinning on its own. More than likelyhood this is about liability.
...

My father was an electro-mechanical engineer and was one of the designers of the General Electric Elec-Trak tractors back in the '70s. He was also a **** good machinist. His mantra was to shut the machine off before messing with any rotating parts. Didn't matter if it were the pulleys on a lathe or milling machine, the blades on a mower, or the PTO on an engine. He's still alive and uninjured today at 77 years old. And I plan on beating him in pushing the max age of the men in my family.

The point is, a smart engineer ALWAYS distrusts the safety mechanisms simply because you never know when just the jarring of the shaft as it fits onto the PTO stub may be enough to pop the lock off or re-engage the clutch.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful or insulting, but if you're in such a hurry to hook up that you can't take the time to turn it off and restart it, then you're already in the mindset of not taking enough time to ensure the PTO lever is fully disengaged before hopping out of your seat.

And I'd sure hate to lose any of you folks over a simple mistake.

 

[Soundguy]

the reason engineers have to mistrust stuff like that is because 1, when they designed it.. it was good, overbuilt and safe like a rock.. then some dern bean counter figured they could save a penny on every 5000 units, called for a value-engineered re-design that just barely makes it past warranty 80% of the time.. uses flimsy parts, is designed to be repalced or fail, and in general, is probably brittle.

ask any engineer if you don't believe me.

bean counters get more input into the way something is built than we, the engineers do. BTDT on jobs I've engineered.

soundguy

 

[Short Game]

OR ad an ORC to th e pto if you have room.

past that I've always found a long srewdriver ( 1'+ ) thru a yoke will turn a shaft even on a batwing..

soundguy

Noah, build an ORC.

Right, Lord. What's an ORC?

 

[beppington]

Noah, build an ORC.

Right, Lord. What's an ORC?

Over Running Coupler?

(I had to look it up)

 

[boggen]

i hate getting off tractor while it is running. i do get off tractor while the engine is running, but i do not like doing so. and because of this it normally kicks in to check gear out, brakes on, etc...

but i still have managed to hit something that caused the tractor to start moving while just getting off the tractor.

==============
with above aside, many times, it is just me and no one around. and those inital 2 arms for hooking up implements i leave the engine running while getting them hooked up. after that engine gets turned off.

to many times i need to raise / lower arms just a tad to get things hooked up. and there is no physical way to get things hooked up with a large size crow bar plus a cheater bar on it. or use of a jack. so not much of a choice. but keep tractor engine running, so i can raise and lower the arms. i am still skiddish though, of keeping body in a place were i might atleast fall backwards if tractor begins to move on its own.

hooking up the PTO or getting under tractor engine = off.

 

[RoyJackson]

Over Running Coupler?

(I had to look it up)

Over Running Clutch...

We TBNers are adding too many unfamilar acronyms, IMHO

 

[Soundguy]

IMHO.. /ORC/ shouldn't be that unfamiliar on a tractor site

as for shutting equipment off?

I guess I worked around heavy equipment and stationary equipment way too long. sawmills and belted equipment.. augers..e tc. road work machines.. IE.. stuff you start int he morning and shut off when it starts getting dark..

if I turned my machine off ever time my foot hit the ground I'd be knee deep in starter cores in my garage. gates to open close, stuff to move, get down for a drink from the cooler, whizz on a bush.. hand the wife the gas card from the wallette.. etc..e tc..

soundguy

 

[grsthegreat]

ya, i feel more vulnerable when i have to work around live 1600 amp electrical panels (hospitals), and i cant shut them off, then i do around my tractor.

 

[Soundguy]

ya, i feel more vulnerable when i have to work around live 1600 amp electrical panels (hospitals), and i cant shut them off, then i do around my tractor.

yep.. I do plenty o stuff that feels way LESS safe than working around my tractor.

like going to the range and seeing NEW people who have just bought their first gun... now that scares me...

soundguy

 

[grsthegreat]

yep.. I do plenty o stuff that feels way LESS safe than working around my tractor.

like going to the range and seeing NEW people who have just bought their first gun... now that scares me...

soundguy

YUP..... or worse yet, i went to an outdoor range years ago when i lived in Californiacate, and a bunch of gang bangers show up with modified AK's..... scarred the shi& out of us. we left pronto. Now THAT scared me. My tractor makes me all bunny petting mellow.

 

[canoetrpr]

the reason engineers have to mistrust stuff like that is because 1, when they designed it.. it was good, overbuilt and safe like a rock.. then some dern bean counter figured they could save a penny on every 5000 units, called for a value-engineered re-design that just barely makes it past warranty 80% of the time.. uses flimsy parts, is designed to be repalced or fail, and in general, is probably brittle.

ask any engineer if you don't believe me.

bean counters get more input into the way something is built than we, the engineers do. BTDT on jobs I've engineered.

soundguy

x2 to what soundguy said. I'm an engineer and you won't believe the things the bean counters do. I'm going to turn off the power source to anything that can hurt me before handling it. Just my own rule of thumb. I might feel differently if time was money on my tractor I guess.

 

[PHIL850]

I don't trust the safety on a firearm, and the same goes for my Tractor.
Shut her down and hook it up.

Ciao, Phil

 

[slofr8]

Usually running.

 

[North West Farmer]

I believe I am addressing Wedge40,

Whoever, the question that was asked of me was in my years of experience responding to power shaft/PTO emergencies which was the most common cause of the accident, hooking up PTO's or working around or having a misshape around a shaft that is already turning.

By far the most common accident involved someone working around a power shaft and accidently contacting it, rubbing up against it etc. The amazing thing I have oberved is that often times a slow turning shaft is more lethal than a high speed shaft. The slow turning shaft gets hold of you andslowly wraps you up into and eventually around the shaft, a slow miserable death.

High speed shafts are prone to ripping off a pant leg, a coat sleeve or some part of clothing. The victom may walk away with a contusion on the body part and damage to his clothing. I have also responded to horrendous accidents involving high speed shafts that grabbed some heave clothing and very quickly wrapped the clothing and the victom around the shaft or just tore them up real bad and left body parts scattered in a fairly wide area.

After you have seen enough accidents of any kind, it comes down to pick your poison, it is is going to get you it is your time.

Everybody, take great caution in working around power and or PTO shafts. They can get you if you do the wrong thing or just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Nick, North West Farmer

 

[Short Game]

Well, I guess that just about wraps it up!

 

[Soundguy]

last time I was at the range, someone waved their gun down the entire row of people, and later on after we called cold range and half of us were putting targets up.. there this guy was on the end of the line and snapped off 5 rounds in fast succession, people dove for cover.. I think he almost got beat down over that one..

that's what scares me.. not my tractor pto magically activating ..... as much as I wouldn't mind having a key chain fob to remote start and drive and activate my tractors hyds and pto.. so far I havn't seen one yet..

soundguy