Tractor starting issues

[whynot162]

I have a Rino 324. Love the tractor. About a year ago it developed a starting issue in the cold and snow. So I used a little starting fluid on it, an have had to since then. I know it is not preferred. but I needed the tractor to move snow. I then replaced the injectors.
it has gotten slowly harder to start, then developed a leak in the head gasket leaking water into the cyl.
So I have just replaced the head gasket. And things looked ok in the Cyl. But it is still hard to start.
When you start it you have to keep feeding it starting fluid little by little until it will finally run on it's own. It takes a while, like there is not enough fuel or something. I do not get air when cracking the fitting at the injector, just fuel.
I have no way to do a compression test, I also get no fuel through the return hose from the injectors. I do get white smoke.
I am starting to wonder if there is a bigger issue, maybe in the injection pump?
Any ideas or advice?
thanks

 

[whynot162]

The tractor runs great after it is started and up and running. And will restart if tried immediately, but even after 5 min, it is more difficult to start.

Seems like it is loosing pressure. and has to build it back up. But what would cause that?

 

[Bob Rooks]

I have a Rino 324. Love the tractor. About a year ago it developed a starting issue in the cold and snow. So I used a little starting fluid on it, an have had to since then. I know it is not preferred. but I needed the tractor to move snow. I then replaced the injectors.
it has gotten slowly harder to start, then developed a leak in the head gasket leaking water into the cyl.
So I have just replaced the head gasket. And things looked ok in the Cyl. But it is still hard to start.
When you start it you have to keep feeding it starting fluid little by little until it will finally run on it's own. It takes a while, like there is not enough fuel or something. I do not get air when cracking the fitting at the injector, just fuel.
I have no way to do a compression test, I also get no fuel through the return hose from the injectors. I do get white smoke.
I am starting to wonder if there is a bigger issue, maybe in the injection pump?
Any ideas or advice?
thanks

The "return line" from the injectors is just a leak off line so don't expect to get a lot of fuel, if any, from there. The real return line comes from the fuel injection pump.

White smoke is unburned fuel, possibly from dribbling injectors, which could also partially account for the hard starting and loss of power. Suggest you take the injectors to a diesel shop and have them pop tested.
Other things to check:

1) Air filter element.
2) Fuel sediment bowl strainer.
3) Fuel tank strainer (if equipped, you have to remove the sediment bowl assembly to check).
4) Banjo bolt strainer on the suction side of the lift pump.

You also share the symptoms of the early stages of diesel bugs.

 

[whynot162]

What are diesel bugs? Sounds like you are thinking a restricted filter or air leak?
And it does not blow white smoke when running, only when trying to start.

 

[Bob Rooks]

What are diesel bugs? Sounds like you are thinking a restricted filter or air leak?
And it does not blow white smoke when running, only when trying to start.

Okay, then remove the air filter from the list. now I'm just thinking bad injectors and restricted filters and screens (also possibly internally collapsed flexible fuel lines).

You've never heard of diesel bugs before? There are volumes written on the subject. Begin here: https://www.google.com/search?q=diesel+bugs&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIC_en

 

[whynot162]

thanks for the help so far,
I did replace the injectors about 1 year ago so I think they are ok.

If the fuel was restricted, why does it run good, and just have a starting issue? I do not doubt you, just trying to understand what is going on and why.

Thank you for the help

 

[greg_g]

But it is still hard to start.
When you start it you have to keep feeding it starting fluid little by little until it will finally run on it's own. It takes a while, like there is not enough fuel or something.

Sounds like either the pre-heater isn't working, or you're not using it to its advantage. What type is on your engine? Glow plugs or manifold heater?

//greg//

 

[whynot162]

it is a glow plug type thing in the manifold. fed by electricity, and fuel from the top of the injectors, and there is no fuel there. and it has never worked.

 

[RonMar]

Moving snow probably dosn't use much of the engines full capacity. It takes more fuel to start a cold engine, than it does to keep a warm one running. Since that throttle is actually a speed control, the ammount of fuel being delivered is being determined by the governor, so you have no idea exactly how much is being sent to the injectors. Only way to determine fuel flow capacity accuratly would be to hook the tractor up to a dyno and place it under full load to see if it is actually getting enough fuel to make full power. In my experience, white smoke on a cold diesel during startup indicates too little fuel. It is trying to ignite the fuel, but there just isn't enough being delivered to really do anything but make smoke. I get this from my hand crank slow speed diesel when I havn't properly bled the high pressure line to the injector.

I think you probably have a fuel restriction before the IP. I would go thru the complete fuel system, starting with the screen strainer up in the fuel tank, and ending at the injector pump. That includes completely draining the tank and de-installing the fuel petcock to insure if it has a screen up in the tank, you are cleaning it. take apart every fitting as these beasts have some unusual locations for screens Insure that fuel flows easilly thru all the hoses and fittings as a hose may have broken down internally and is not passing fuel freely. Typical plumbing has the fuel leaving the tank thru a petcock/strainer/glass bowl, to the IP lift pump(look for strainer there), to the fuel filter, and back to the IP(again look for strainer at this fitting).

If you were restricting fuel before the IP, the governor calling for full fuel at startup due to low RPM cannot deliver what it is commanding.

 

[TTTTTT]

Interesting, for cold starting for my DF, the manual even says to open the manual throttle from 1/3 to 1/2 when cranking. (after doing preheat) when cranking. I do notice a big difference when starting in colder weather this way. So the point of not getting enough fuel on startup makes sense. Of course as well the viscosity of diesel even with conditioners is thicker when colder making for harder starts.

Dave