ANOTHER fire fighting query

[JDgreen227]

I have been working in my basement shop about 30 feet away, taking apart the guns for my power washers and replacing the O-rings, and got to wondering:

Given a medium sized fire, and one you could reach from your garden hose (no nozzle or finger used to extend the range, which of these methods would be more effective?

Using the water flow from the hose, which typically is probably 40-50 psi and will flow 10 gpm, or attaching the hose to a 3000 psi, 3 gpm pressure washer?

I am wondering if the additional force of water supplied from the power washer would offset the reduction in water on the fire?

 

[RoyJackson]

I'd be concerned about spreading the fire with the pressure behind a pressure washer...moving the burning items around, that is.

 

[JDgreen227]

I'd be concerned about spreading the fire with the pressure behind a pressure washer...moving the burning items around, that is.

And I am wondering if breaking up the base of a fire would make it easier to extinguish it...you could always change the spray concentration to cover a wider area after using a jet stream to accomplish that...I am wondering which is more important, amount of water or being able to change the flow to suit your method. You make an excellent point, one which I had not originally thought of.

 

[RoyJackson]

And I am wondering if breaking up the base of a fire would make it easier to extinguish it...you could always change the spray concentration to cover a wider area after using a jet stream to accomplish that...I am wondering which is more important, amount of water or being able to change the flow to suit your method. You make an excellent point, one which I had not originally thought of.

I'd use a wide spray to cool as much as possible without "disturbing" the base of the fire...of course, that also depends on what is in the surrounding area...

 

[leonz]

The implementation of fog spray nozzles are becoming the normal way of doing things with water for firefighting. Powder and CO2 type fire suppressant/fire extinguishers are recommended for spraying at the base of A, B and C type fires.

 

[Branchchipper]

I'd go with the garden hose.

IMO, Blasting towards the fire with 3 gpm and all that entrained air seems to be less desirable than putting 10 gpm on it directly, with the consequent reduction in BTUs that gives you.

Years ago, there was a high-pressure water fog system used by the Navy that made its way into the US fire service. Some swore by it, and others swore at it...

The debate about high vs. low-pressure fog vs. solid-bore (straight stream) has still not been fully resolved, decades later, at least in the US.

I participated in some evaluations of combination vs. solid-bore nozzles for interior firefighting a few years ago, and I became a big fan of solid-bore nozzles for many (not all) situations.

In the mean time, while I was on a truck (ladder) company in the '90s, my crew and I stopped more than one room-and-contents fire with only a p-can (pressurized water extinguisher) while waiting for the first-due engine company to arrive and set up. That was essentially a very small garden hose.

 

[Part timer]

I have been working in my basement shop about 30 feet away, taking apart the guns for my power washers and replacing the O-rings, and got to wondering:

Given a medium sized fire, and one you could reach from your garden hose (no nozzle or finger used to extend the range, which of these methods would be more effective?

Using the water flow from the hose, which typically is probably 40-50 psi and will flow 10 gpm, or attaching the hose to a 3000 psi, 3 gpm pressure washer?

I am wondering if the additional force of water supplied from the power washer would offset the reduction in water on the fire?

I have been a fire fighter for 11 years and in my experience less water/more pressure usually doesn't work well, you will more than likely spread the fire and throw debris everywhere.

It also depends on the situation. If you are trying to protect something like a structure from a grass fire a pressure washer would work well for cooling/wetting down walls.

In most situations your best bet would be to use whatever method gives you the most volume and still have decent water pressure. One thing you need to consider is several cheap garden hose nozzles actually restrict your water flow. Even if it sounds corny I have fire hose nozzles on my garden hoses, lowes sells them for a decent price and I have found they give you a lot more volume and still consistent pressure when compared to a normal "Wal-Mart" nozzle.

Chris

 

[Part timer]

Also attacking the base of the fire is not a bad thing but keep in mind you do not want the fire a straight stream directly into the base as you can spread burning debris quickly. Try using a semi fog pattern, but always check overhead such as ceilings, walls, and trees, your number one priority is your own safety if you attack any fire from the ground up you may send smoke and steam over your head making overhead visibility difficult, possibly resulting in burning debris falling on you or a roof or ceiling collapse. I've had tree limbs fall from overhead that I never saw coming just keep in mind Always evaluate the situation thoroughly and keep safety in mind!!! Fire is no joke!!!

Chris

 

[RoyJackson]

Also attacking the base of the fire is not a bad thing but keep in mind you do not want the fire a straight stream directly into the base as you can spread burning debris quickly. Try using a semi fog pattern, but always check overhead such as ceilings, walls, and trees, your number one priority is your own safety if you attack any fire from the ground up you may send smoke and steam over your head making overhead visibility difficult, possibly resulting in burning debris falling on you or a roof or ceiling collapse. I've had tree limbs fall from overhead that I never saw coming just keep in mind Always evaluate the situation thoroughly and keep safety in mind!!! Fire is no joke!!!

Chris

And always have an avenue of escape!!

 

[JDgreen227]

Thanks, all, for the input...I just came in, been cleaning the carb on my ATV, it it parked outside, I am using CARB CLEANER and not gasoline, and a minimal amount of CC at that. I have both a 1A, 10BC and a 2A, 40BC extinguisher handy. Fire scares the (bleep) out of me and that is one of the reasons for my possibly inane queries....thanks again.

 

[RoyJackson]

Thanks, all, for the input...I just came in, been cleaning the carb on my ATV, it it parked outside, I am using CARB CLEANER and not gasoline, and a minimal amount of CC at that. I have both a 1A, 10BC and a 2A, 40BC extinguisher handy. Fire scares the (bleep) out of me and that is one of the reasons for my possibly inane queries....thanks again.

We are here to help!!

And since other TBNers will read this thread (I hope), maybe they'll learn something too!!

Fire scares the (bleep) out of me...

You know...one of the vivid (and horrifying) memories I have of the 9-11-2001 atrocity is of people jumping out of the Twin Towers...to escape a fiery death but knowing they were going to die upon impact with the sidewalks. That's a **** of a choice to make, eh?

 

[slowzuki]

A fog nozzle on a pressure washer is similar to european water mist suppression systems but not for the guy without bunker gear. You have to get close. They work great for oil/gas and electrical fires, not as good for deep seated Class A (normal) combustibles. A heavier stream that can penetrate the base of the fire helps there.

To be honest, a 10 gpm hose won't do much against any size of fire, especially in a solid stream. Be very careful. 10 gpm in a 13R sprinkler system does help a lot by being at the source of the fire right after it starts. Even then it is only designed to help get you out of the house safely.

 

[forgeblast]

Thanks for discussing this. I was thinking of welding a 55 gallon barrel on a cart and having my pressure washer hooked up to it incase of a small fire or grass fire(then again we had the a year that tied the 100 year old record for rain.).
Would a foaming additive (gemplers sells them) make any difference?
I remember fire drills at a boy scout camp with indian tanks, hauling them around wasnt fun.

 

[leonz]

You have to purchase the eductor and mixing chamber
as well as a blower to get it to work right and that
gets into some serious $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[leonz]

Personally, I think it is high time that
the soda stream fire extinguishers were
brought back into service.

I wil probably have a lot of negative comments
about the soda stream method but it worked and
worked well even though it used a small percentage
of sulfuric acid to make the foam with the baking
soda and water.

Wine vinegar could be used as a catalyst even though
the acidity is lower than Sulfuric Acid especially with
mine fires or forest fires.

 

[JDgreen227]

Thanks for discussing this. I was thinking of welding a 55 gallon barrel on a cart and having my pressure washer hooked up to it incase of a small fire or grass fire(then again we had the a year that tied the 100 year old record for rain.).
Would a foaming additive (gemplers sells them) make any difference?
I remember fire drills at a boy scout camp with indian tanks, hauling them around wasnt fun.

Your post reminded me of an incident that happened about 600 feet away from my home about 20 years ago. I was push mowing outside and saw smoke and flames there in a vacant lot, the weather was very dry and some moron had thrown out firecrackers and set the grass afire. I ran to my garage and threw several 5 gallon pails with lids into my car trunk, backed up to my hose and filled them then five minutes later I had about 40 gallons of water and I roared out to the fire, by the time I had stopped two volunteer firemen were attacking the blaze with small portable 1A extinguishers, the three of us managed to douse it all. One of them is now the local fire chief and I am on VERY good terms with him....:thumbsup:

 

[grnspot110]

In the mean time, while I was on a truck (ladder) company in the '90s, my crew and I stopped more than one room-and-contents fire with only a p-can (pressurized water extinguisher) while waiting for the first-due engine company to arrive and set up. That was essentially a very small garden hose.

In the summer I keep a "pressure water" extinguisher near my welder. Don't use anti-freeze in it, so I drain it in cold weather. Paid $5 for it at a flea market! ~~ grnspot

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Interesting question JD...I have often wondered that myself...

I have noticed that UTV based high pressure firefighting systems have gained popularity. The pumps they use are built by some of the same companies who build pressure washer pumps.

Here is one of the companies that builds the UTV units:

Wild Land Fire Suppression

Video:

Foam Firefighting System - YouTube

The one thing you will see, is pretty much all the units use "class A" foam in conjunction with water.

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Would a foaming additive (gemplers sells them) make any difference?

Class A firefighting foam would.

 

[CompactTractorFan]

You have to purchase the eductor and mixing chamber
as well as a blower to get it to work right and that
gets into some serious $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Not really, here is a unit that goes on the end of your garden hose for $90:

Foam Kit, 3/4" GHT 3 gpm 1% Eduction Portable-Primo Pumps and Fire Equipment