Off Topic - Inverter Generators

[Mark Page]

I understand what a power inverter is, but how does it apply to generators. Do they generate DC current and then convert it A/C? I kinda' thought they all worked that way.

 

[Soundguy]

most 'generators' ( alternators ) are making ac ... pretty much the same way your car makes it.. pretty much same principle of ac generation the way the power company makes it. spinny parts and magnetic fields.

now 2 stage that and throw a battery and thus dc right in the middle.. charge battery, then use inverter to make ac.

get some benefits like stand by ac that, when load is low, can have the ac sourc 'trickle' and the engine not run lock step rpm to make a certain rpm/hertz... the electronics in the inverter side handle making the correct freq. etc.

there's more to it than that.. but that's the verbal 'block diagram' of it.

soundguy

 

[Redneck in training]

That is exactly the case. But not all inverters are created equal. Some generate square wave, the better one generate modified sine wave and the best generate pure sine wave. Devices with transformers are, in general, sensitive to symmetry of the wave as the asymmetrical wave could burn the winding. Most switched power supplies such as in computers don't care much.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. switchers look at a segment.. and are pretty immune. as for xformers caring. kkeep in mind the inductance of the primary will actually help witht hat wave form 'some'.

ferr0-ressonant supplies practically hate low resoloution inverters.

soundguy

 

[sixdogs]

Wai a minute--I'm all confused, can I use an inverter generator to power stuff around the house?

 

[Craig Clayton]

To sixdogs
Yes for around the house. If the name plate states 120 Vac 60 Hz and is the 15 amp u ground receptacle you should be good to go. All the above mentioned explainations are correct.

Craig Clayton

 

[Travelover]

This is a pretty good video on the subject.

Inside an Inverter Generator, Car Alternator, AC - YouTube

 

[sixdogs]

To sixdogs
Yes for around the house. If the name plate states 120 Vac 60 Hz and is the 15 amp u ground receptacle you should be good to go. All the above mentioned explainations are correct.

Craig Clayton

Thanks. I have a bigger 10,000-12,000 for power outages but at times want something small and light outside. Costco has an inverter generator at times that seems to be a good deal.

 

[Soundguy]

heck a car bat and a plain inverter has made it thru a few hurricanes for me, when power was out a day or less..

soundguy

 

[Mickey_Fx]

This is a pretty good video on the subject.

Inside an Inverter Generator, Car Alternator, AC - YouTube

What a mess the link is. Talk about moving pictures.

Not claiming to be an expert on this subject, inverter generators, but I do own a small one. Power is produces in 3 stages. 1st is variable freq HV AC. 2nd stage, the AC is turned into DC, still at somewhat high voltage. 3rd stage the DC is turned into controlled 60Hz (or 50Hz) 120V (depend upon which country generator is intended for) power.

As for waveform, I'm not so sure here. Suspect better made design produce sine wave. Possibly lower cost design produce a modified sq wave.

Seem to recall the 1st stage on my genset is up around 200 volts. Swapping higher voltage for current the design can get by with smaller ga wiring on the generator side of the operation.

It's this multistage power generation that permits the engine speed to vary and only needs to turn fast enough to satisfy load needs.

 

[Soundguy]

it's the fact that it hits dc and everything from there is back end power re-generation.. don't matter about the fornt end.

you could put a hug bat charger ont he bat front end, OR that alt with rectified output. as long as you are providing power in the voltage and current range acceptable to the bat and the back end ckt it drives ( tolerance ).. then you are good to go.

soundguy

 

[sixdogs]

heck a car bat and a plain inverter has made it thru a few hurricanes for me, when power was out a day or less..

soundguy

Well, sure...in sunny Florida...You are good to go and it's all you need.

We used to live in a very rural part of Maine and once spent two weeks without power. At 20 below with a hard wind you had better have done all your thinking long before the "uh-oh" moment of panic. Basements crack, pipes burst and showers are zero fun at 38 degree water. I have done it. Talk about shrinkage.
Woodstoves heat "up" since heat rises and unless you have one in the basement it gets real cold real fast.
This is good info in this thread on generators.

Tis far better to have a generator of excess capacity and not need it than be a little short of power and not have it. I think Confucious said that.

 

[IndyIan]

I've got a 2004 yamaha 3000W inverter model with all the sound insulation. Works well, uses little gas and is quiet! Like stand beside it and have a normal conversation quiet, or I've had people ask what that blue thing is, purring away on my porch. It would almost run our house (minus the dryer)but it doesn't have a 220V output for our well pump.
With a power outage we just run the freezers and fridge every few hours with extension cords. I've debated making double ended cord to feed into our panel to run lights but haven't so far. Our woodstove is our main source of heat anyways so that end is covered.

 

[Soundguy]

Well, sure...in sunny Florida...You are good to go and it's all you need.

We used to live in a very rural part of Maine and once spent two weeks without power. At 20 below with a hard wind you had better have done all your thinking long before the "uh-oh" moment of panic. Basements crack, pipes burst and showers are zero fun at 38 degree water. I have done it. Talk about shrinkage.
Woodstoves heat "up" since heat rises and unless you have one in the basement it gets real cold real fast.
This is good info in this thread on generators.

Tis far better to have a generator of excess capacity and not need it than be a little short of power and not have it. I think Confucious said that.

did I state otherwise? anywhere? ever?

my response was in reference to having a large gen set, and also something small and portable when you don't need the starship warp engine 3 gigawatt power.. just the lil 'hand phasor' level of power..

soundguy

 

[sixdogs]

did I state otherwise? anywhere? ever?

my response was in reference to having a large gen set, and also something small and portable when you don't need the starship warp engine 3 gigawatt power.. just the lil 'hand phasor' level of power..

soundguy

Oops--very sorry. Came out wrong.
I value your info and unintentional, error on my part.
Zero malice.

 

[RPW]

The nice thing about inverted style generators is there size. You can get more power per pound because they can generate the AC star much higher frequency which uses smaller components.

 

[JB4310]

What a mess the link is. Talk about moving pictures.

Not claiming to be an expert on this subject, inverter generators, but I do own a small one. Power is produces in 3 stages. 1st is variable freq HV AC. 2nd stage, the AC is turned into DC, still at somewhat high voltage. 3rd stage the DC is turned into controlled 60Hz (or 50Hz) 120V (depend upon which country generator is intended for) power.

As for waveform, I'm not so sure here. Suspect better made design produce sine wave. Possibly lower cost design produce a modified sq wave.

Seem to recall the 1st stage on my genset is up around 200 volts. Swapping higher voltage for current the design can get by with smaller ga wiring on the generator side of the operation.

It's this multistage power generation that permits the engine speed to vary and only needs to turn fast enough to satisfy load needs.

Yup I just got a quick lesson myself on how inverters work, picked up what I thought was a good deal on a Chinese 2 kw Kipor inverter, which is a Honda clone.

Ran perfectly but would not put out 120VAC. I found a site that explained how to test them. I found it was putting high voltage out from the alternator to the inverter (300VAC as specified), but no AC out of the inverter, only low voltage DC, from the DC terminals. The test showed it was the inverter that was bad and the cost to replace the inverter is not worth it.

I sold it to a guy for parts, I only lost $25. on the deal.

JB

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Man, wish I had know and lived closer, that's the small inverter genset I have. Could have made good use of the parts if I ever had the need. It has always worked well for me. At least in the past, Kipor was associated with Phillips and were/are very popular in Europe.

 

[JB4310]

Man, wish I had know and lived closer, that's the small inverter genset I have. Could have made good use of the parts if I ever had the need. It has always worked well for me. At least in the past, Kipor was associated with Phillips and were/are very popular in Europe.

Supposedly it is a reverse engineered Honda, that's why even though it's Chinese it's supposed to be pretty good.

Only thing I don't like and was probably the reason this one was fried, is, there is no ac circuit protection, at least no visible breaker anyway.

The rest of the unit looked brand new and started first pull. sold it for $125.

JB

 

[Soundguy]

considering a new 2000w inverter section would have cost about 150$.. yeah... shame it was bad.

that and another 10$ of parts and it could have had some potential.

wonder what fried it. most invertes i see have OC and thermal protection... what they don't have is reverse polarity protection... wonder if a battery was serviced and hooked backwards.. that or a rectifier shorted maybee.

soundguy