Thanks for all the info, we have looked at several, this Ford is not real pretty, but its runs ok, was concerned about the smoke but looks like this is common, we looked at one Ford 1700 and the man said it smoked a little, if that was a little I'd hate to see a lot, we found a Ford 1710 with a loader on one of the major internet sites at what we thought was a fair price, the salesman said it was ready to go, we made the 6 hour drive and it was a fairly large dealership, you talk about a dog, it sounded like it was running on 2 cylinders and absolutely would not turn left, straight or right were the only 2 options, the salesman said it had been thru the shop and was good to go, kind of had to restrain my bud, we're still looking.