Hi, thanks to everyone that answered my questions about insulation. Now I am really having second thought about the Adams Truss building I was getting ready to put up. A pole barn allows me to place my overhead doors along the side instead of the endwalls and this works much better on my property. However the thought of sticking posts in the ground scares me a little. Won't that post rot? I live in NE Kansas and yes there are lots of pole barns here. Should I be worried about these posts rotting? What has been your experience?
Should I Be Afraid of a Pole Barn
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Poles in my shed are set within concrete pillars. In your case, they may be treated lumber, warping was more of a concern for me.
If there is a concern, why don't you go back to a conventional building with foundation and cement block walls. My barn is built that way.
Being that you are in Kansas, I'd worry more about wind damage, inflation, lightning and fire.
If there is a concern, why don't you go back to a conventional building with foundation and cement block walls. My barn is built that way.
Being that you are in Kansas, I'd worry more about wind damage, inflation, lightning and fire.
Depmandog
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I would think you could design a way to install the doors anywhere you want with the Adams Truss building..,,
But that wasn't your question.
I used 6"x 6" pressure treated 18' posts for my 14' sidewalls. End walls had 22 / 24' posts.
Each post was set 3 1/2' deep in a 14" hole. The bottom of the hole had 6" of gravel, and after the posts were set and braced the holes were filled with pre mixed concrete.
After the building was constructed, a gravel base was put in place that surrounds three sides of every post, then a slab was poured on top of the base. Around the exterior, I have the dirt sloping away from the building. It has been up for about 10 years, and it's as solid today as the day I built it.
We have a company that pressure treats lumber 1/2 mile from my building. The only sell wholesale, but was able to set up an account through the business I had at the time and bought all my lumber from them for two thirds the cost of the lumber yard. Their only stipulation was you had to buy a lift or half lift quantity.
I wouldn't shy away from a pole barn...I used 26 gauge metal, and the metal building insulation. From the outside it looks like a metal building.
Of course I would rather of had a true metal building, but this worked for me.
Good luck
Dean
But that wasn't your question.
I used 6"x 6" pressure treated 18' posts for my 14' sidewalls. End walls had 22 / 24' posts.
Each post was set 3 1/2' deep in a 14" hole. The bottom of the hole had 6" of gravel, and after the posts were set and braced the holes were filled with pre mixed concrete.
After the building was constructed, a gravel base was put in place that surrounds three sides of every post, then a slab was poured on top of the base. Around the exterior, I have the dirt sloping away from the building. It has been up for about 10 years, and it's as solid today as the day I built it.
We have a company that pressure treats lumber 1/2 mile from my building. The only sell wholesale, but was able to set up an account through the business I had at the time and bought all my lumber from them for two thirds the cost of the lumber yard. Their only stipulation was you had to buy a lift or half lift quantity.
I wouldn't shy away from a pole barn...I used 26 gauge metal, and the metal building insulation. From the outside it looks like a metal building.
Of course I would rather of had a true metal building, but this worked for me.
Good luck
Dean
The problem with Adams truss is that the trusses are every 10 ft apart so you have a difficult time getting a 14 ft. or 16 ft. door along the side. Thanks tho for your reply about how you did your posts. That is helpful.
Not in your lifetime, unless you're only 20 years old. There are sleeves you can install around the post if it bothers you, they cost extra. Make sure you get posts treated for ground contact, put in decent drainage, and you won't have any problems.
I don't see how the concrete is doing any good. Or is the post held up off the surface of the gravel so the concrete goes under the bottom of the post?
Depmandog
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monteu said:
They don't have a header system? You can always build a header using, among other things - LVL. Georgia Pacific will calculate the load and tell you what you need. Go to a lumber yard with your building info (not a box store). Something like Beverly Lumber in Riverside. They can help.
My two cents
Dean
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My Morton Building has 3 pressure treated 2x6 boards nailed together with galvinized nails below ground, and regular 2x6 boards spliced in above ground ,and has been up almost 20 years. They show no signs or decay yet.
whistlepig
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I have read so many responses about treated posts rotting out here that it appears that it would just be best if we all put up tents. No concrete on treated posts for fences. No concrete for treated pole barn posts. I use concrete. It holds down fence posts and pole barns down much better than wet earth.
Willl
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On my pole barn, the treated posts were set on 2 bags of concrete (still in bag) and the hole refilled with 'torpedo sand'.
Depmandog
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BeezFun said:
By not immediately setting the posts in concrete gives you the ability to make adjustments left to right / side to side. Of course you can't take forever because the posts will twist and warp within a few days of unbundling.
The gravel in the bottom of the post hole allows for drainage. Keeps the post dry.
We set all the posts, braced them four ways, than ran the wall purlins (2x6). We left the bracing on two sides (in and out).
At ceiling height, I ran a 2x10 on the interior and exterior of the posts.
Then filled the holes with redii-mix concrete.
Then we ran the rim joist around the bottom at the height of the future concrete floor.
After this was done (braces still on the posts - in/out) we set the trusses, which were 42' wide 10' OC (same as the posts). The trusses rested on the two 2x10's, and were bolted to the posts.
Tops of the posts were trimmed off, and the braces removed. Installed the roof purlins, insulated and sheeted.
It has held up to some pretty violent thunderstorms (80 - 90 mph winds or so). Short of a tornado it's not going anywhere.
I left out several additional measures that was taken (diagonal bracing, truss bracing, etc). The building is 42' x 68' x 14' side walls. It has 2 10' x 12' overhead doors, a man door, and a 14' slider.
My only regret was putting in the slider. Used it one time to work on a 13' 3 spindle bush hog RC. Now I have so much stuff in there...time to build another building!!!
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I have often seen pole barns made with telephone poles. You can get used ones from the hydro company, and cut off the rotten end. The heavy creosote coating will make them last for a long time.
The poles on our first barn, will be 30 next year. Our second barn, was 20 last year.
For those who are concerned about warpage, this is why I switched to laminated poles on later projects. They don't warp, or shrink.
Titan Timbers ? Glue Laminated Wood Columns - Post Frame Construction Products
For those who are concerned about warpage, this is why I switched to laminated poles on later projects. They don't warp, or shrink.
Titan Timbers ? Glue Laminated Wood Columns - Post Frame Construction Products
Gary Fowler
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I removed a wooden fence from my former property in Harris County Texas in 2004 that I had owned for more than 20 years and the fence was built in 1970
The boards and runners were somewhat rotten, but the post when pulled from the ground (embeded in concrete) were just like new. Some of the bottoms were bare of concrete for 4" or more with no signs of rot. These were in a poorly draining area and stayed wet during the winter months. I dont think you would have any problem with rot in a properly treated and concreted in post. When placing concrete around post, I like to place a bit of concrete in the hole first then place my post to insure complete encasement, then I mound up the concrete around the top to form a conical shape that drains all the water away from the post. Concrete bonds to the wood well enough to form a water tight barrier. That being said, my preferred method would be to pour a concrete pillar with 4 vertical rebar reinforcement and 6x6 wire mesh cage around the rebar, embed galvanized anchor bolts and then using L shaped brackets, bolt the post to the concrete pile.
The boards and runners were somewhat rotten, but the post when pulled from the ground (embeded in concrete) were just like new. Some of the bottoms were bare of concrete for 4" or more with no signs of rot. These were in a poorly draining area and stayed wet during the winter months. I dont think you would have any problem with rot in a properly treated and concreted in post. When placing concrete around post, I like to place a bit of concrete in the hole first then place my post to insure complete encasement, then I mound up the concrete around the top to form a conical shape that drains all the water away from the post. Concrete bonds to the wood well enough to form a water tight barrier. That being said, my preferred method would be to pour a concrete pillar with 4 vertical rebar reinforcement and 6x6 wire mesh cage around the rebar, embed galvanized anchor bolts and then using L shaped brackets, bolt the post to the concrete pile.
Billys Goat
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I'm in a planning phase for a "barn" myself. A pole building is a given because they are reasonably priced compared to other construction and a pole building will take less labor to construct. Gravel is desired for my forge and shop, concrete for a vehicle lift pad and for our management of our livestock. We have a very high water table as we are within 1500' of Lake Huron. We are facing the probability of rot with our poles and considering an interesting solution by www.permacolumn.com but this will limit us to construction in the summer when it dries up or maybe we will retro-fit when we have rot so we can get our building up this winter.
Hoosier Hay Man
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We have 4 pole barns from 40 years old to 10 years old. Have not had any trouble.
The treated post used in a pole building, whether laminated or not, with good drainage will last a very very very long time. Typically the post will rot because of poor drainage due to no over hang or gutters to keep the water running away from the poles. The poles will rot where the post meets the ground with poor drainage not below the ground. Lack of oxygen helps preserve the part in the ground and if treated properly no bugs will eat it either. The best part of a utility pole is typically the part below the ground. The top is in the weather and will show splitting as the sun drys it out and where its meets the soil is where it will rot, same as a fence post.
Concrete should always go under the post to act a footer, not around it as this wil premote rotting. Sand or a mellow well drained soil should go around the post. Most of the post building companies in our area have a preformed round concrete footers to put under the post. A bag of powdered premixed concrete will work as well.
Now since some areas that have drainage issues there is what is called a perma collumn which is a cyclinder form you place in the ground and pour concrete in. It should come up above the ground. You then have a bracket you bolt the post to above ground. These are used to repair post that have rotted at the ground and are used in new constuction as well.
I wouldn't be afraid of a pole/post building as they go up fast and are economical alternative to a foundation building. :thumbsup:
The treated post used in a pole building, whether laminated or not, with good drainage will last a very very very long time. Typically the post will rot because of poor drainage due to no over hang or gutters to keep the water running away from the poles. The poles will rot where the post meets the ground with poor drainage not below the ground. Lack of oxygen helps preserve the part in the ground and if treated properly no bugs will eat it either. The best part of a utility pole is typically the part below the ground. The top is in the weather and will show splitting as the sun drys it out and where its meets the soil is where it will rot, same as a fence post.
Concrete should always go under the post to act a footer, not around it as this wil premote rotting. Sand or a mellow well drained soil should go around the post. Most of the post building companies in our area have a preformed round concrete footers to put under the post. A bag of powdered premixed concrete will work as well.
Now since some areas that have drainage issues there is what is called a perma collumn which is a cyclinder form you place in the ground and pour concrete in. It should come up above the ground. You then have a bracket you bolt the post to above ground. These are used to repair post that have rotted at the ground and are used in new constuction as well.
I wouldn't be afraid of a pole/post building as they go up fast and are economical alternative to a foundation building. :thumbsup:
Billys Goat
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Hoosier Hay Man get outta my head ! lol
Hoosier Hay Man
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I would of posted sooner but the wife had a garage door problem so I had to leave for a spell. At least we are on the same wave link.
If the post is not setting on top of a pad of concrete, the area that is supporting the weight of the building has been reduced to the cross sectional area of the post, which is pretty small. The weight of the building will force the post through the concrete collar, so I don't see what the value of the concrete is. Normally a building will require about a 16" diameter concrete pad to achieve sufficient area for soil loading.
