Thoughts on converting lawn tractor snow blower to PT422

[KMA]

I was knocking around the idea of putting a snowblower on my PT428 (PT422 w/ Robin EH72 FI swap). The price of the PT attachment new ($3200) is way too high for me. What do you guys think about about picking up a used 48" lawn/garden tractor snowblower attachment on craig's list and adapting it to my PT? I'm thinking I would have to mount an attachment plate, pull of the belt drive pulley and mounting a love joy connector (or similar), then weld up a mount for a hydraulic motor. There are also some PTO drive versions floating around may be a better choice to start with. (?)

Is this a crazy idea? I've seen used blowers locally for as low as $100. If I could do the whole thing for around $500 I might give it a try. I'm a rookie welder, but this project wouldn't have to look pretty... Having a large blower to clear my 400 ft stone driveway would be very nice.

Looking forward to some input from the forum. Thanks!

 

[MossRoad]

I was thinking about doing the same thing as I mentioned in another thread. I went to a local tractor junk yard and found many single stage units but not too many two stage units. I would only do a two stage unit. I did find one two stage unit, 48" wide, never used but left outside for many years off of a Bolens (I believe). I think they wanted several hundred dollars. I passed. I may go back if I get the funds and offer them 200.

It was a belt drive unit. I could remove the drive pulleys and find a lovejoy to fit the shaft and connect it to the motor from my brush hog. I think that would work. I suppose I should research the RPM of the original blower and see if my brush hog motor is near or if I would need higher speed motor.

Anyhow, I think it would be a very easy to engineer project and a good one for basic welding skills as well. If you have the funds and time, go for it. :thumbsup:

 

[washita]

just some thoughts about a snow blower adapted to a pt. most units have a max. spindle speed of roughly 1000 rpm (typical std.bearing limit), the impeller tip speed seems to make a big difference in efficiency ie; larger diameter impeller appears to work better (my neighbors single stage outperforms my two stage, both have same width,hp,self propelled,etc) a single stage blower on the pt would work for me, but I also do not have to remove a lot of snow per season, after fixing my second stage impeller twice last winter (newspapers are tough on impellers) I will probably use only the plow to clean snow with

 

[KMA]

Thanks guys. I was thinking about the spindle speed, etc... and will have to try and figure out how to match it. I was thinking a PTO blower might be better since it I can imagine being able to couple it up to the hydraulic motor easier, and I would have a good idea of what the RPM speed would need to be.

Thanks for the input. All other ideas/comments are welcome.

 

[KentT]

If I were going to convert one, personally, I'd look for one that is belt driven, and then use a pulley on the hydraulic motor and a V-belt connection rather than direct coupling. IMO, this offers two advantages:

1. The V-belt can slip should you ingest an indigestible object such as frozen newspaper or a tree limb (been there, done that). A Lovejoy can absorb some shock but cannot readily slip without some damage, should movement come to a screeching halt. Lovejoys are intended to absorb initial shock and compensate for imprecise alignment, not to serve as a slip-clutch...

2. Then, you could use variations in pulley sizes (and corresponding belt lengths) to fine-tune the performance once you've put it in operation. Otherwise, you're limited to your one-time choice of hydraulic motor displacement, and then varying the engine speed to vary hydraulic output. By using pulleys and a belt, you could fine-tune it operate optimally at full throttle, providing more torque to the snowblower and more hydraulic flow to the wheelmotors.

My 2 cents...

EDIT: Impeller speed is critical for proper operation of a single-stage snowblower. Impeller speed and keeping the "intake hopper full" are the two primary keys to good performance. With a single-stage on a normal garden tractor, you should always operate at wide-open-throttle, and vary the ground speed and width of cut as needed to keep the "intake hopper" full of snow. Impeller speed is not quite as critical for a two-stage, but still very important, and a key determinant of how far you throw the snow...

 

[3238dpw]

Well anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I have shown interest in this. I plow snow at my job. When I came home I don't want to mess around. i want it done so I can go to bed. I have been unable to find a 48" blower for a reasonable cost. I have found many 42", 46", and many other sizes but have found that the 48" to be much more rare. Here is a link to much of the previous talk about this.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/95167-snowblower-conversion.html

 

[KentT]

Well anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I have shown interest in this. I plow snow at my job. When I came home I don't want to mess around. i want it done so I can go to bed. I have been unable to find a 48" blower for a reasonable cost. I have found many 42", 46", and many other sizes but have found that the 48" to be much more rare. Here is a link to much of the previous talk about this.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/95167-snowblower-conversion.html

An affordable solution might be to swap out tires/wheels in the winter for a used set of 23x8.50x12s that are common on garden tractors. Then leave the chains mounted on them for winter-time use. This would narrow the PTs track to 46" or less, while giving better traction in snow. In snow, narrower tires will actually give better traction because they'll cut through the snow, rather than riding on top and packing it down...

You could likely pick up pairs of used 23x8.50x12 turfs, mounted on wheels, for $40 - $50 at tractor shows and swap meets... $100 or less, for all four, mounted. Then buy one or more sets of chains...

Just a thought...

 

[KMA]

Well anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I have shown interest in this. I plow snow at my job. When I came home I don't want to mess around. i want it done so I can go to bed. I have been unable to find a 48" blower for a reasonable cost. I have found many 42", 46", and many other sizes but have found that the 48" to be much more rare. Here is a link to much of the previous talk about this.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/95167-snowblower-conversion.html

Wow... The link you provided to duane's thread uses the same snowblower I will likely be picking up in the morning for $100 used. It's a New Holland vs Toro/Wheelhorse, but they are identical except for the paint color and logos. I had the guy measure it from "wing" tip to tip and he said it was about 45" across, although it is listed as a 42" model. There is a lot of good information in that thread along with some ideas. I don't think I will do everything the same, but it's a great example. Thanks for posting the link. :thumbsup:

An affordable solution might be to swap out tires/wheels in the winter for a used set of 23x8.50x12s that are common on garden tractors. Then leave the chains mounted on them for winter-time use. This would narrow the PTs track to 46" or less, while giving better traction in snow. In snow, narrower tires will actually give better traction because they'll cut through the snow, rather than riding on top and packing it down...

You could likely pick up pairs of used 23x8.50x12 turfs, mounted on wheels, for $40 - $50 at tractor shows and swap meets... $100 or less, for all four, mounted. Then buy one or more sets of chains...

Just a thought...

I like the tire/wheel idea. If I don't go too far over budget, I think I will consider this option. I'd like to keep it all under $500 if possible. The snowblower is going leave me with $400 for motor, connections, mounting, etc.

Duane mentioned in his thread that the right hydraulic motor is the same one used on the PT mower. Does anyone know the specifics and the best place to find a good one cheap?

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

[coolconnection]

Funny, Duane doesn't use that blower anymore that I know of because I have the hydro motor on my leaf blower now. It had enough speed for the snow blower but no power for it when it got heavy.

 

[KMA]

Well that's good to know. I wonder if a different motor would help, one that had more torque even if it spun a bit slower (or maybe even slightly faster...?). In other words more torque may sacrifice max throwing distance for better performance in the heavier snow. Maybe a two stage blower is the only answer?

How does the PT snowblower work on the 422? I think it is chain driven similar to the one duane used, but I think it's two stage (albeit bigger than the one duane used).

I was thinking maybe a motor like this one?

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-1183

It is .58 cu and should spin at just under 3200 RPM @ 8gpm (if I'm doing the calculations right), which is a bit slower than the one duane used but should add a bit more torque (approx 230 in/lbs vs 200 for a .5 cu in motor at 2500 psi). It says it handles 2000 psi cont and 2500 intermittent... not sure if that would be a problem with the 422's 2500 psi PTO circuit.

 

[MossRoad]

If I were going to convert one, personally, I'd look for one that is belt driven, and then use a pulley on the hydraulic motor and a V-belt connection rather than direct coupling. IMO, this offers two advantages:

1. The V-belt can slip should you ingest an indigestible object such as frozen newspaper or a tree limb (been there, done that). A Lovejoy can absorb some shock but cannot readily slip without some damage, should movement come to a screeching halt. Lovejoys are intended to absorb initial shock and compensate for imprecise alignment, not to serve as a slip-clutch...

2. Then, you could use variations in pulley sizes (and corresponding belt lengths) to fine-tune the performance once you've put it in operation. Otherwise, you're limited to your one-time choice of hydraulic motor displacement, and then varying the engine speed to vary hydraulic output. By using pulleys and a belt, you could fine-tune it operate optimally at full throttle, providing more torque to the snowblower and more hydraulic flow to the wheelmotors.

My 2 cents...

EDIT: Impeller speed is critical for proper operation of a single-stage snowblower. Impeller speed and keeping the "intake hopper full" are the two primary keys to good performance. With a single-stage on a normal garden tractor, you should always operate at wide-open-throttle, and vary the ground speed and width of cut as needed to keep the "intake hopper" full of snow. Impeller speed is not quite as critical for a two-stage, but still very important, and a key determinant of how far you throw the snow...

I think you and I had a similar discussion on this several years ago when we were discussing single stage Simplicity blowers. Great advice and insight! :thumbsup:

 

[KMA]

Yeah, keeping the pulley and belt drive in tact shouldn't be too difficult looking at the pics of the snowblower I could be buying. Plus, I've decided I'd like try to "borrow" the motor off of my finish mower for this job since I have a commercial zero turn that I use in the summer. That will allow me to come in way under budget, and if the single stage doesn't work out I'm only out $100 or so.

Thanks again for the input and Happy New Year!

 

[smilindave]

I built my my snow blower from a single stage unit. I was pretty pleased with the results. I used a pulley system, but would rather have it direct drive. Smokes too many belts. Plus I don't have any frozen obstacles to get in my way. I also used the motor from my finish mower. It works good on the speed, but I wish it had a little more power.

 

[KMA]

Thanks for the input Dave. I also have the brush cutter which looks to be a much bigger motor. Does anyone have the specs on that model? I could borrow it for use on the snowblower and replace it in the summer months when I need it. I wonder if it spins fast enough for this application...?

 

[smilindave]

Just wanted to let you know, if you use the pulley system, the snow blower will be longer which poses 2 problems. First, the turning/steering radius changes and it is much harder to navigate. This means that you can not make sharp turns. Otherwise, you end up running over the fresh snow and packing it down. Second, the snow blower also becomes very heavy in the front when lifting it off the ground, causing more PT pucker. Just my experience.

 

[3238dpw]

Wow Dave! Any pictures?:thumbsup:

 

[KMA]

I picked up this snowblower for $80 today. I have some ideas on how to mount the pulley without extending it much (might even be able to shorten it up from the stock length). I have two motors to play with (PT brush cutter and finish mower). I can replace the 6" pulley on the shaft with something smaller, and use a large pulley on the motor to increase the auger speed if needed.

 

[KMA]

Quick question regarding motors...

For discussions sake, let's say I have two motors and both run off of the PT422 PTO circuit (8gpm / 2500 psi): Motor 'A' is the smaller one and will spin at 3600 rpms, and motor 'B' is the larger one and spins at 1800 rpm. The larger, slower motor 'B' has more torque but would need a bigger pulley in order to get the snowblower auger spinning at the proper speed (e.g. 3600 rpms). Conversely motor 'A' would need a much smaller pulley, or could even be direct mounted. Would there be a significant difference between using one or the other? In other words, would the larger pulley required by motor 'B' nullify any torque advantage?

Obviously if I had an application where 1800 rpms was ideal then motor 'B' would be a no brainer, but I didn't know if the larger motor would help if I needed to work at the much higher speeds handled by motor 'A'.

Thanks.

 

[MossRoad]

Well, I would use the brush hog VS the finish mower as a comparison.

The brush hog's larger motor is designed to get a large mass (the heavy blades) spinning and keep them spinning.

The finish mower's smaller motor is designed to get a smaller mass spinning at a higher speed to make clean cuts, not spin mass.

Snow is heavy. I'd use the brush hog motor. You can gear it up for higher speed if needed. If you use the smaller motor, it may not have the ability to keep the impeller turning under load.

 

[J_J]

If I remember correctly, the hyd motors on the finish mowing decks are about 3 cu in, and with 8 GPM's, that makes the motor turn at 616. You will have to bump up the speed by belt/pulley or a gear box setup.

In order to get direct driving speed using the 8 GPM's, you will need a hyd motor of .6 cu in for a speed of 3080 rpm.

Torque will be about 287 in lbs, using 3000 psi, and a .6 cu in hyd motor.

If the brush hog motor is larger in cu in, you will have more torque, but you will still need to bump up the speed even more as a 5 cu in hyd motor using 8 GPM's, is only 370 rpm's.

If you have a 6 in pulley on the impeller, in order to up the rpm to say 3000, rpm, you will need about a 5:1 ratio, so if using the 3 cu in motor, at 616 rpm, that ratio will provide about 3080 rpm's, however, the pulley will be huge.