Another Kubota that won't start. Fuel filter?

cs6000 · Jan 27, 2012

Here's the setup. I've had the tractor, an L3130 HST about 6 months, had no trouble at all. Today I started it up, let it warm a couple minutes (temp in upper 50's) then headed out. After traveling about 100 yards, it sputtered and died, and will not restart. Battery is cranking the starter just fine, it will cough some, but not start.

I had just added fuel a couple days ago, gauges all read fine, it is not showing any problems on the panel. It just sounds like it is not getting fuel. Don't know when or if the fuel filter has ever been changed. I can see fuel in about the bottom half of the filter. The fuel valve is open.
It is not due an oil change for quite awhile, air filter is OK.

Let me add one thing. When I bought diesel last time, there was a guy working on the pump, replacing the hoses. I was the first to use it with the new hose. Wondered if maybe something could have gone wrong there, something in the hose, debris, etc.

Have not yet researched how tough it is to change the fuel filter. Wanted to make sure there is nothing I am over looking. The manual also mentions bleeding the fuel system ocassionally, but you have to start the motor to do it.

cs6000 · Jan 27, 2012

Sorry to answer my own questions, but I watched a video posted by a kubota service tech on changing fuel filters. He mentioned that all have gravity fed fuel systems, and showed how to fill the filters sediment bowl by turning on the fuel cock before tightening down the filter.

It struck me as funny that my sediment bowl was only half full of fuel. I went down, removed the sediment bowl and filter, neither looked dirty. I then loosely put the bowl back and opened the fuel cock. No fuel came out.

Now I'm thinking maybe there is an obstruction between the tank and filter/fuel cock. Any way to blow those out?

tcartwri · Jan 27, 2012

do you have the original and correct cap on the fuel tank. If you take the cap off, will the fuel flow...

crashz · Jan 27, 2012

You could take the cap off and try blowing the restriction back through the tank. Don't use compressed air though, I'd use something low pressure/volume like a bike pump. Otherwise you could have a diesel geiser. Also, remember if you loosen that restriction, it will flow without any shut off, so I'd do it inside a clean 5 gallon pail, with a way to clamp the hose shut.

First, can you see anything blocking the feed line by looking through the filler? Something may be blocking it that you may be able to access.

With no fuel flow, you know the probelm is either in the line or the tank, so its easy enough, but may require removing the tank to clean it.

cs6000 · Jan 27, 2012

tcartwri said:
do you have the original and correct cap on the fuel tank. If you take the cap off, will the fuel flow...

It is the original cap, tried taking it off to see if that would help, nothing happened, or at least no fuel started to flow.

Have been reading some other posts about people having problems with some "fuel shutoff solenoid". Apparently this solenoid somehow starts and stops the flow of fuel electrically. Sounds complex. Maybe I misunderstood this video that described all Kubota fuel systems as gravity fed.

284 International · Jan 27, 2012

cs6000 said:
...my sediment bowl was only half full of fuel. I went down, removed the sediment bowl and filter... opened the fuel cock. No fuel came out...

I think you've isolated the problem already.

If fuel won't reach the filter, it isn't going to reach the pump. If the pump doesn't have fuel, the tractor won't run. Depending on how the machine is set up, you may have a length of hose that runs from the tank down to the fuel filter assembly. A piece of wire should be able to ream out the obstruction(s), but you would be wise, I think, to pull the tank off and clean all that gunk out, lest it cause you more problems later.

Like crashz said, the trouble is in the tank and/or the line, so start there. Then bleed the system with a new fuel filter installed. You should be ready to work after that. Good luck!

cs6000 · Jan 27, 2012

Getting tired of hiking or driving back and forth to where the tractor is for today.
I've looked over the parts diagrams online to see if I can get an idea of how the fuel lines run, but they're pretty hard to make sense of.
Tomorrow I'll get back there and explore how tough removing tank etc will. Hopefully there is a way to drain it first without diesel running everywhere.

Do y'all know if this will be an operation involving alot of cussing?

jimmysisson · Jan 27, 2012

All the sediment bowls I'm used to need to be full before fuel flows through them. So you're headed right to look upstream.
Jim

cs6000 · Jan 27, 2012

Just went back and had another look. The bowl is about half full now. Took off the filter and it drips out about 1 drop every 10 seconds.
Was surprised to see the fuel line comes out of the top of the tank. Is there a pump in there?

In my most lamebrained move, at some point when it died, I dropped the boxblade and front end bucket to the ground, out of habit. Now I cannot even tow it to the barn. What a move. Maybe I could fill the bowl up with fuel and at least get it started to fix that problem.

I appreciate all the quick and non-judgemental replies, really helps to keep the worries down.

crazyal · Jan 27, 2012

It not frozen water in your fuel line is it? If not then I would try to blow air back up the fuel line, maybe with a tire pump or something. Just be ready because if there is something blocking the line and you blow it out now fuel will flow down the line. Once you do that I would try to look in the fuel tank and see if I see anything that could have blocked it and try to remove it (otherwise it will block it again).

284 International · Jan 28, 2012

Looking at the diagrams, it appears the fuel line comes out the bottom of the tank to the fuel filter and bowl, then to a lift pump that feeds the injection pump. I think there is a vent tube that vents the fuel bowl going to the top of the fuel tank, and then a return line beside it from the injectors.

Were it mine, I would get a fuel jug or container equal to the capacity of the fuel in the tank that I could then fill with the fuel line (so maybe having a funnel or some extra fuel line or whatever was required). Pull the fuel line off the filter bowl. If it doesn't drain, stick a wire up in there and root around until it will flow. It will likely plug again, just repeat the process until the tank is empty.

Then remove and clean the tank thoroughly, probably with a spray carburetor cleaner or something, and flush the tank until all traces of the gunk plugging it up are gone. Reattach the tank and lines, put in a new filter, fill with fresh, clean fuel, and go to work. I'd look into a filter funnel or strainer of some sort if the neck of the fuel tank doesn't have one already.

David_Kb7uns · Jan 28, 2012

If your L3130 has the metal filter housing like mine, it will have three hoses coming out of it. One goes to the tank other goes to pump, third one is vent and goes to top of tank. The line going to pump has a valve to open for bleading, start engine with bleeder valve open and run for a bit and then close. Make sure to turn on valve on filter housing also.

If you have a B series or other engines with the black plastic housing with white/clear plastic bowl, as you unscrew the bowl there is a plunger that closes the fuel feed automaticly as the bowl is removed. Screwing the bowl back on starts fuel flow and air is vented back to tank. Sometimes the bleeder valve on the injection pump needs to be opened to complete bleeding.

David Kb7uns

MarkV · Jan 28, 2012

I'll bet money you have some sort of junk in the fuel tank that is obstructing the pick-up. Try getting something in there to stir up the sediment near the bottom. At least you might get enough flow to get the tractor back home and then you can drain the tank.

You might also want to do a search on the forum about starting a tractor that has run out of fuel. Sometimes it will start right up but other times you need to bleed the lines to get air out of them.

MarkV

cs6000 · Jan 28, 2012

OK. I finally noticed the fuel line coming from the bottom of the tank. Took it off at the fuel filter, and blew air up it with a bike pump.
The diesel started to run freely, so I stuck it back onto the filter, and shut it off. I then put the sediment bowl on loosely, turned on fuel until sediment bowl ran over. Then tightened.

Tried to start, but it won't. So I guess I have to bleed the thing. My manual says to shut off fuel, then remove the air vent cock on the the fuel injection pump. It says to start the engine, run 30 seconds, then close the air vent cock.

Since mine won't start anyway, do I need to open the injectors and all that, or try the above?

I'm trying to get it started, get it to the barn, then remove drain and clean the gas tank.

Chilly807 · Jan 28, 2012

Generally speaking, you open the vent cock, then crank the engine with the fuel supply valve open, this allows any fuel trapped in the pump to get out and be replaced with solid fuel. It may take a bit of cranking to get the air out of the pump. No more than 20 seconds at a time to avoid overheating the starter. Let it "rest" about 10 minutes between cranking sessions if it takes more than a couple.

Your procedure may be different than mine, it's a different tractor.

Sean

cs6000 · Jan 28, 2012

I had that backwards on the fuel shutoff. I broke down and recruited a neighbor that is very talented. I cranked while he loosened and tightened the injectors.

Got it started and everything OK for now. Now I have to get the tank business cleaned out, hopefully without having to do another bleed session.

Many thanks to all the posters. You all knew what you were talking about, and helped me understand.

crazyal · Jan 28, 2012

let us know what you find in your tank. Had a co-worker who got hay in his tank somehow and sucked it into the fuel line. I would allow enough fuel to flow for low to mid RPM but if running high it would suck the fuel bowl dry and cut out intermittently. I think the dealer just replaced the supply hose.

cs6000 · Jan 29, 2012

I don't know if I'm going to be able to get the tank off or not. Between the heat shield, the frame around it, and the exhaust in front of it, I haven't been able to get it off. I've taken every screw and bolt out that I can reach, removed the radiator overflow tank, etc.

Just can't figure it out. Very frustrating.

I might have to settle for draining it, then plug it some way and add some clean diesel. Maybe then try to blow in some air to stir things up, and drain again.

gengine · Jan 29, 2012

I work at a mine where we have an issue with guys adding the additives. Somehow they peel off the seal on a new bottle and it ends up in the tank, plugging the line inside the tank. I don't think your problem is sediment, but rather something more solid like what I described. Maybe the guy working on the pump and nozzle left some Teflon tape where it shouldn't have been and your the unlucky one to get it in your tank. You may want to drain your tank into clean containers trying to get every drop out that you can, try to find a way to pull anything out the tank that you can. Such as pulling off the sender and putting your hand in there if the opening is large enough. Maybe a little dentist type mirror and a flashlight to look first to try to see anything in there. It sounds like a pain to remove the tank and flush it in your circumstance, but that may be what it comes to. When you get things solved, you can put the fuel back in using a funnel with a strainer. My local Ace hardware sells them for $5.99. Good luck!