Using a generator to power a water well pump

[whiskywizard]

We have a 6500 watt Honda and the well pump doesn't lug it. Can't even tell when the well pump kicks on by listening to the generator. The only thing that I can hear a load on the generator is when I plug in an electric skillet.

Is that Honda a true 6500W, or is it 5500W continuous but called a 6500? Do you recall what model it is? I ask because the model I'm thinking is best for me is the EU6500isC2. Honda calls it a 6500 but it is really 5500 (45.8A)

 

[BobRip]

I'm not going to pretend that I know everything in regards to your statement, because I don't. What I do know is that you use more energy to move water than you do to pressurize it. For example, if you have a 1-HP pump set at 200' pumping 8 gpm, you might pull ~8 amps. If you were to install a throttle valve at the head and throttle that 8 gpm down to 4 gpm, you will pull less amps, like ~7ish. So using that logic you're using more electricity when you're moving the most water. I don't know if accelerating the water is factor. It all happens in a split second. The second the motor is energized is when it uses the most energy. The time from start to full rpm's is fractional.

I apologize if I am getting to stuborn on this. I am not an expert on pumps or even motors, even though I do have a EE degree. I find that practical experience is more important a lot of the time. Mine is limited here, yours is much more extensive.

I noticed three stages of current when starting my pump. A very high one which lasted just a few seconds, a medium one which lasted for thirty seconds, and then a current near the name plate on the motor. This was several years ago so details are forgotten. The extra stage in the middle surprised me, and my intepretation is that it is the water accleration stage. This is very limited data. Initially my circuit breaker would buzz when the pump started (even on power from the power company). After my wire was changed from 12 guage to 10 guage this went away and the pump would now start on my smaller generator. There are a lot of variables here (such a pump design, water level in well, and pump depth, plus who knows what). I am speaking out of my expertise now, so maybe I should shut up.

 

[Patriotic Stabilist]

I was reading way back, yes we siphoned gas but had a time doing it.

Hubby bought a hose deal that you shake and it will get the gas started somehow but my tenant did it and he had to put a lot of hose down the tank, it was not easy.

I bought a siphon hose the other day with a bulb in the middle that you squeeze, have no idea if it works may find out someday. But we can get gas out of mowers, tractor, probably motorhome??, there is 75 gallons alone if we need to I hope.

After reading a lot of this, I'm now wondering if our generator will handle our new well. I think it has a 1.5 hp or 2 hp pump on it and is 300 foot deep. The old well had an above ground pump and we don't know how deep. I believe they told me it couldn't go more then 200 ft with that type of pump. It's been there 30 years and is still going strong.

 

[BobRip]

I'm not going to pretend that I know everything in regards to your statement, because I don't. What I do know is that you use more energy to move water than you do to pressurize it. For example, if you have a 1-HP pump set at 200' pumping 8 gpm, you might pull ~8 amps. If you were to install a throttle valve at the head and throttle that 8 gpm down to 4 gpm, you will pull less amps, like ~7ish. So using that logic you're using more electricity when you're moving the most water. I don't know if accelerating the water is factor. It all happens in a split second. The second the motor is energized is when it uses the most energy. The time from start to full rpm's is fractional.

Does this mean that you could throttle back on the pump outlet and the pump would be easier for a generator to start and run it? Sounds like it to me. Has anyone tried this?

 

[hosspuller]

Does this mean that you could throttle back on the pump outlet and the pump would be easier for a generator to start and run it? Sounds like it to me. Has anyone tried this?

Many centrifigal pumps and fans react this way. They draw maximum HP and current when they're moving the most volume. The best way to see this is by looking at a pump/fan curve.

 

[MikeD74T]

Does this mean that you could throttle back on the pump outlet and the pump would be easier for a generator to start and run it? Sounds like it to me. Has anyone tried this?

Yes & yes. At our nuclear power plant we have LOTS of pumps. Most are started with discharge valve closed & valves will not open until pump is up to rated speed. MikeD74T

 

[Snapper Head]

We jsut installed a Generac 20kw unit with the Nexus switch with load shedding, hooked up to a new 500 gallon propane tank. House is all electric, with a 1 hp jet pump for the well. This generator starts and runs everything, including a 5 ton heat pump unit.

I suspect that it would only run the whole shebang for about 6 days, but would go for two weeks if we kept the things to a minimum. I also have two 5500 watt portable gasoline generators and several hundred gallons of fuel (that how we used to manage post-hurricane). If the house is still standing after a storm, we will be able to take hot showers and sleep in comfort. That has enormous value.......


Big Al

 

[Patriotic Stabilist]

I so agree, but hubby figured up the usage and said it would cost a fortune to run one. What are you figuring as usage per hour or day?? I'm curious because I would still like to have one and that size is what he said we needed for our house the 20kw to run everything. He said the smaller ones didn't have enough circuits.

 

[brownew304]

The best info I've found on generators and well pumps. Although power is very reliable in central Colorado, a recent wind storm and no water for a day convinced me now is the time for backup, not to mention a SHTF scenario. Following is my info:

Submersible 1 HP Red Jacket (230 Volts)
Well Depth: 320'
Pumping Level: 163'
Static Level: 40'
Rate: 15 GPM

Branson 4720i: 42 HP PTO
House: Propane (Two 1000 gallon tanks)

I'm debating on the type of generator. I could easily back the tractor / PTO gen into my garage and only have a portion of the tractor in the elements. However it seems a propane generator would make the most sense, especially when it comes to long term diesel storage, which I currently only have ~50 gallons of storage capability. Not sure if a stand-alone gas / diesel would fit into the equation?

Just curious what the smart folks out there would suggest for type and size of generator would be best for my circumstances, along with the most bang for the buck. Thanks in advance!

 

[hosspuller]

BN304 ... I have a 4000 watt gasoline portable. My transfer switch is a plug in the basement to the well pump. Originally it was hard wired, I replaced it with plug and receptacle. When I run with the genset, I unplug the well pump and use the 220 volt extension cord made up to the genset outside.

But since you already have a propane tank, I would recommend a permanent genset with automatic excercise. It'll cost about same as a PTO genset without the hassle.

Nothing beats a hot shower after working in the cold.

 

[dex3361]

The best info I've found on generators and well pumps. Although power is very reliable in central Colorado, a recent wind storm and no water for a day convinced me now is the time for backup, not to mention a SHTF scenario. Following is my info:

Submersible 1 HP Red Jacket (230 Volts)
Well Depth: 320'
Pumping Level: 163'
Static Level: 40'
Rate: 15 GPM

Branson 4720i: 42 HP PTO
House: Propane (Two 1000 gallon tanks)

I'm debating on the type of generator. I could easily back the tractor / PTO gen into my garage and only have a portion of the tractor in the elements. However it seems a propane generator would make the most sense, especially when it comes to long term diesel storage, which I currently only have ~50 gallons of storage capability. Not sure if a stand-alone gas / diesel would fit into the equation?

Just curious what the smart folks out there would suggest for type and size of generator would be best for my circumstances, along with the most bang for the buck. Thanks in advance!

The issue on starting a motor is the inrush current(amps) which can be up to 6 time the running current(amps). You may need 4500 watts just to start the pump. After it starts the amps will drop back to the normal running current(amps).
I use a 6.5KW diesel stand alone. This gets me good efficiency and leaves my tractor free to use for storm clean up.
If I went propane and had an extended outage I would use about 40# of propane a day running about 5KW for 16 hours a day.
I use about 4.5 gallons of diesel on the same run of 16 hours. 55 gallons of diesel would keep me running for about 12 days. 500 gallons of propane would keep me going for about 10 days. Now if natural gas were and option that would really be a route to consider.

 

[BobRip]

Having the large supply of fuel is a real plus. It can be hard to get during bad weather. Roads get blocked and power at the fueling station can be out. Since you have all of this propane I would use it.

 

[brownew304]

Many thanks - I'll start looking for a gen today.

 

[dex3361]

Having the large supply of fuel is a real plus. It can be hard to get during bad weather. Roads get blocked and power at the fueling station can be out. Since you have all of this propane I would use it.

Maybe I gave the wrong impression in my response. I do not have a 500 gallon propane tank but if I did it would only hold me for 10 or 12 days. I do usually have between 20 to 60 gallons of diesel on hand between the diesel generator the truck and the 2 tractors. It would be to difficult to get a refill of propane if we had an event the went on for and extended period of time.

 

[BobRip]

Maybe I gave the wrong impression in my response. I do not have a 500 gallon propane tank but if I did it would only hold me for 10 or 12 days. I do usually have between 20 to 60 gallons of diesel on hand between the diesel generator the truck and the 2 tractors. It would be to difficult to get a refill of propane if we had an event the went on for and extended period of time.

Sorry, I misunderstood. You cannot refill propane yourself, so I don't like to use it as my emergency supply unless I have a whole lot of it. However, if it has been several days without power and I was running low on fuel, I would start cutting back on generator use. Only run it for vital things like water, sewage and refrigeration. To that end I have a very small inverter generator (1600 watts continous) that will run 9 hours on one gallon of gas. It will not start my well. In the worst case of low fuel I would run the big generator just to pump up the well and drain the septic tank. This might be 30 minutes a day. Then run the little one for the small refrigerator and freezer and solar pump with a few lites.

 

[dex3361]

Sorry, I misunderstood. You cannot refill propane yourself, so I don't like to use it as my emergency supply unless I have a whole lot of it. However, if it has been several days without power and I was running low on fuel, I would start cutting back on generator use. Only run it for vital things like water, sewage and refrigeration. To that end I have a very small inverter generator (1600 watts continous) that will run 9 hours on one gallon of gas. It will not start my well. In the worst case of low fuel I would run the big generator just to pump up the well and drain the septic tank. This might be 30 minutes a day. Then run the little one for the small refrigerator and freezer and solar pump with a few lites.

You are right I could stretch my fuel usage out quit a bit. My little 6.5KW diesel generator usually gets about 3 hours to the gallon or a little better and I could shut it down for long stretches through the day but we usually just operate as usual for short duration outages. I have a well pump and have no water without the generator.:thumbsup:

 

[BobRip]

You are right I could stretch my fuel usage out quit a bit. My little 6.5KW diesel generator usually gets about 3 hours to the gallon or a little better and I could shut it down for long stretches through the day but we usually just operate as usual for short duration outages. I have a well pump and have no water without the generator.:thumbsup:

I have a second tank on my well so i can go longer without the generator. The refrigerators need to be run at last 12 hours a day though.

 

[dex3361]

I have a second tank on my well so i can go longer without the generator. The refrigerators need to be run at last 12 hours a day though.

That is my issue too. Though I do not have a reserve water tank. I thought about putting one up on the hill but then I would get into stagnation issues.