Started burning E85

[handirifle]

Even 10% ethanol is a PITA. You cannot store it for more than a month unless an additive is included. I can store gas/oil mix a bit longer in my 2 stroke equipment but I think I have been lucky there too.

Outboard motors are constantly having to replace fuel lines because the ethanol eats thru the old ones.

Here in CA we are FORCED to use 10%, nothing else is available and we pay premium prices for it, at the pump, AND at the grocery store. Anyone that thinks that it does not affect food prices is full of crap.

I'll give you a great example. Since uncle big bucks is paying companies to produce ethanol, many local farmers are dropping alfalfa growing for the new gold, corn. As a result, those that still grow alfalfa are charging premium prices. Folk here are paying as much as $25 PER BALE. It does the same to other crops, every time someone decides to get in with the new cash cow.

The government is run by morons with stars twinkling in their eyes. They have forced auto makers to "keep upping the mpg average" Ok fine, so what happened to the little Honda Civic from the 70's that got an honest 50mpg? In going "clean" the fuel efficiency always takes a dive. As was asked, I, too, wonder how much mileage I would be getting on 100% gasoline?

If the average drop is 20%, most likely higher, then that is 20% more fuel that has to be burned to get the same distance, thus more pollutants per mile. Whether or not it will bankrupt the folks buying it, a little at a time, means nothing to them. That's just the cost of "progress" so they say.

Our government has gone from one that serves its citizens and protects the nation, to one whose subjects serve the nation, to protect it. It knows better than we, what is best for us, thus we no longer will be able to buy incandescent light bulbs, cause those evil things use more energy than florescents, never mind the fact that there are a lot of times when you can just flat see better and farther with incandescent bulbs.

They make us squint inside the house, to see to read a book, but wear sunglasses at night when driving because some "genius" thinks it's cool to install those nice blue headlights, and has NO CLUE how to adjust them out of the eyes of oncoming traffic.

And all this, according to more than a few facebook posters, is Bush Sr. and Jr's fault.
but this pres, has nothing to do with it!!!!! ?????
Rant over.

 

[timswi]

Good rant.

 

[rambler]

Even 10% ethanol is a PITA. You cannot store it for more than a month unless an additive is included. I can store gas/oil mix a bit longer in my 2 stroke equipment but I think I have been lucky there too.

I'll give you a great example. Since uncle big bucks is paying companies to produce ethanol, many local farmers are dropping alfalfa growing for the new gold, corn. As a result, those that still grow alfalfa are charging premium prices. Folk here are paying as much as $25 PER BALE. It does the same to other crops, every time someone decides to get in with the new cash cow.

A month??????? Really? Minnesota has required E10 since the late 1980s, ON the farm I use mostly diesel tractors any more, so the 300 gallons of gas - E10 - ends up lasting me about a whole year. I've had no problems running it in the lawnmowers, chainsaws, Polaris Ranger, the 4 old small gas tractors. I really just can't go along with you on this one, think you are off base here. If we have no problems in a Minnesota climate......

The tax subsidy for ethnol ended the 1st of the year, so no one is being paid to produce ethanol any more.

People in California paying $25 a bale for alfalfa likely are not in production ag - they are feeding a pet horse and so the cost of the hay is a luxury item, not much of a statement there. Ethanol production also produces high protien feed as a byproduct, so for some groups, cattle feeders, it has made cheaper feeds. All balances out.

Corn, soybeans, and Wheat are valued like gold right now, as the past & present congresses have messed up our ecconomy & cheapened our dollar - the root cause of expensive grains, metals, and crude. Much of the rest of the world is able to pay more for these items.

A 10-20% ethanol blended gas produces different, less harmful fumes. One of the first reasons for using ethanol blends was to cut pollution. Still is.

Using a 10-20% ethanol blend with it's high octane allows them to use poorer gasoline with a lower octaine - allowing more gallons of gas to be produced from each barrel of crude.

You don't really want to know what gasoline would cost today without an E10 ethanol blend. Yea the taxes used to get the infrastructure built wasn't fun, but man would we be up a creek without it.

But - you do have some good points in your rant that I do agree with. And ethanol isn't perfect, it's a bridge to get from where we were to wherever we are going. It'll be around for some time yet. But someday we will be doing something totally different. You might care to consider my points too tho, little more to the story than what you have.

Bio-diesel is pretty neat - Minnesota has required a 2 to 5%% biodiesel blend, for several years. It helps greatly to make up for the ultra low sulfur that is now required, keeps your system lubricated. Most oil crops are too valuable to export so bio-diesel is spendy, but it's better efficency-wise than ethanol. One small plant is even using dead animal rendering to create bio-diesel, tho it needs real careful processing to make lard into a flowable mixable fuel...

--->Paul

 

[Eyeshade]

It is ironic this thread started with a member wanting to burn ethanol so he could stick it to the oil companies. The problem is that it uses MORE oil to produce the ethanol than the energy ethanol provides. So the oil company makes more when you burn ethanol. Why do you think ethanol costs more than gas and has to be subsidized bynthe Government? If it really used less fuel to produce it would be cheaper, everyone would want it, and the government wouldn't need to subsidize it so that people would use it. Here is a link on ethanol production. http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/jul2005/2005-07-13-01.asp

 

[MasseyWV]

It is ironic this thread started with a member wanting to burn ethanol so he could stick it to the oil companies. The problem is that it uses MORE oil to produce the ethanol than the energy ethanol provides. So the oil company makes more when you burn ethanol. Why do you think ethanol costs more than gas and has to be subsidized bynthe Government? If it really used less fuel to produce it would be cheaper, everyone would want it, and the government wouldn't need to subsidize it so that people would use it. Here is a link on ethanol production. Corn Ethanol Takes More Energy Than It Makes

Yes, it is ironic. Everyone who thinks they are going "green" simply ends up spending more green.

 

[Timber]

I have a lot of reasons why I don't use gasoline but I have no interest in arguing my political views on the subject. The best way to stick it to the oil industry is to simply not use oil. The biggest oil consumption machines I have are my pickup trucks. The other reason is environmental and simply personal responsibility. I have a 2003 Silverardo with about 58,000 miles on it ann the 2012 is new. I ride a bicycle 23 miles each way to work and have been for several years. I agree that ethanol is not the solution, the solution is the mindset of people that are clearly addicted to oil just as a junkie is addicted to heroin. If you don't change the way you think then you are doomed to paying higher fuel cost as time goes or the planet dies.

The cost of ethanol production using the argument that it takes more oil to produce is not exactly acurate in the long run. It doesn't matter what energy we wind up converting to in the beginning it has to start out with the existing infrastructure. Tractors run on oil, bulk transportation is based on oil, new pipelines have to be built to transport ethanol. The same argument is used for any kind of alternative energy and is true on the short term. It isn't a matter of if it is a matter of when. The oil supply will either reach the point where dwindling supply will make it too expensive or global warming will become to important to ignore.

Global warming is a real event and the polar ice caps are receding much faster the original were predicted. When that happens the planet will die. Without the polar caps the ocean current stops moving and senses to exist. The air stops moving because the jet stream can no longer exist. With no ocean current and stagnant air because their is no convection the planet dies and it simply doesn't matter anymore.

You right ethanol isn't the answer, solar isn't the answer, wind, electricity, nuclear, are not the answer on their own. The answere is in our mindset and all these things are just the pieces we have available for us to save ourselves.

I do have a big problem with the oil industry. I have a problem with all big buisness buying out politicians and installing them into our governments to serve their needs. It happens in every government across the globe. I am in the trucking industry and I know exactly what it cost to transport comdity around the country. Oil dictates the cost of everything we use, it is the source of every bit of inflated prices of every single item we use or consume.

Change starts in the mindset, it will take time to change our infrastructure and it will happen sooner or later. We either do it while it is under our controled or it will happen on its own. The next century will see a time with no oil industry at least not based on fossil fuel. I might not see it but our children and grand children will. Let's hope they are better than us at fixing the mess we made in the last 100 years

 

[MasseyWV]

Global warming is a real event and the polar ice caps are receding much faster the original were predicted. When that happens the planet will die.

That is conjecture, nothing more.

 

[SensibleNick]

Oohh.. just seen this conversation and given that ALL pumps here have E85, or normal 95 or 98 unleaded, we have a good choice - and a fair bit of experience.

I run an Ford Focus Flexifuel, and the milage - as stated here by many - suffers badly on ethanol. However.. the cost is significantly lower, and it works out cheaper to use ethanol in the long run.

With regards to the truck labelled "flexifuel".... This means your truck is equipped with a system that can detect the difference in fuels, and adjust the fuel feed accordingly. MORE IMPORTANTLY.... it means that the seals, pumps and so on are capable of dealing with the more solvent fuel. Some older machines can't.

The most common Flexifuel problem is that people swap fuels when their tank is empty, and the systems doesn't notice that the change has been made. This causes the engine to run badly. Most manufacturers recommend a gentle swap - though I have read about some cars flat-out refusing to run on the alternative after using the other for a year or so... the Technology is still young.

One of the most common uses of E85 here is to drill out the carb jet on your mower/strimmer/whatever, and run it on E85. They're far nicer machines to work with when the exhaust smells so sweet and isn't loaded with so much nastiness

The second most common usage is to put a quarter tank of E85 in on top of standard -95 or -98 fuel in order to pass the emissions test each year. You effectively cut 25% of the nastiness out, and most cars will be happy with the mix.

There's a lot of controversy about the origin of "bio fuels" and some are made form sugarcane that is being grown in massive areas of de-forested rainforest etc... the ground looses all of its nutrients very fast, and soon becomes useless. It's still damaging to the planet, and not really that "green".

Whatever you choose, whatever your reasons, it really bores down to one thing. Do you want to run on X-million-year-old plants, or new ones?

It's becoming clear that whatever fuels are available, they'll be taxed/regulated to the point where it costs roughly the same to run on any of them.

I've seen a statement in this thread that it takes more oil to make E85.... I'm not sure where that notion came from, but it's wrong. Here's a nice easy guide on how it's made (it doesn't use oil) Ethanol Production - How is Ethanol Made?

PS.. I love the "save the planet" and "climate change" arguments, but refrain from joining in.... my only comment would be that the Planet will be FINE... it's just humans and other sensitive life that will die out.... the planet will regain balance once we're gone. :thumbsup:

 

[Timber]

That is conjecture, nothing more.

Yes it certainly is, nobody can predict the future. Nobody can take into consideration all the details that will be the cause and effect of such concequences. It is nothing better than an educate guess. Nature has a way of rebalancing it self over and over. Their appears to have been several ice ages and we are in the longest state of climate stability in history. The last 100 years has had a large impact on destabilizing this, the pollution to the planet in that time is disturbing.

When I grew up their was no computers, cell phones, bottled water, television was black & white and went off the air at 9 pm. I read popular mechanics, popular science, national geographic, and watched Jacques Cousteau on television. I raised honey bees as a boy and worked in the field with my dad and shook milk in a glass jar with a paper cap to mix the cream before you pored a glass.

I was just a boy when my dad was talking about the ocean temp rising 1 degree and that the coral was bleaching because it was dying. Their was no garbage patch in the pacific ocean. Now the ocean temp has risen 2 degrees, the polar caps have receded, the krill is dying off and the food chain is out of balance. The honey bees have become diseased and have died off in record numbers. The landfills are full and can take no more waste. The ocean has more particals of plastic than plankton. The list goes on and these are what I have seen in my life. Land has become more valuable as realastate than agriculture. I have seen wonderfully achievements in my lifetime and many disappointments with the lack consideration or concern for the generations that follow us. I have my reasons for why I do what I do

 

[JimRB]

Well one can hope that since the earth has a history of ice ages, that another one will come. Productive farm land will be rendered useless due to the cold. People will die from starvation or less breeding. The earth does a reset and starts over again. Remember that volcano that erupted and caused starvation for a year as the temperature dropped? Well neither do I as it was before my time but not all that long ago. April 10, 1815. That said I do try to consolidate trips. I used to ride my bike to work as long as it was warmer than 15 degrees F. Current job does not let me but I can work from home some days.

That $25 a 80# square bale of Alfalfa is $12-16 here in Georgia. Shipped from the same Wyoming and other western states. 1,700 miles. No farther than it takes to get to California. Look for some other answer as to why it is $25. I suspect it is $5-8 in the field though and transportation and profit make up the diffence. Well it is $2-4 a bale more than a few years ago. But diesel is $4 a gallon when it used to be $1. Oh, thats right. Someone decided a tiny fish was more important than walnut trees and other agricultural products so they took away the agricultural water to take care of a tiny fish. The law of unintended consequences. So now a lot of agricultural farmers and workers are not working and paying taxes. Farm products cost more including hay. But then again the drought in Texas messed up hay prices all over the country.

My grandpa commented on farming techniques back in the 70's. I think he was born in the 1890's.