It looks like the only Kubota TLB here in Australia is the B26 which I don't think will be strong enough for my needs.
4 in 1 bucket vs grapple, which would you buy and why?
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It looks like the only Kubota TLB here in Australia is the B26 which I don't think will be strong enough for my needs.
Rustyiron
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I have had both, first the 4n1 then a grapple. And now I have what I really wanted but spent a lot to get to. I mean a "Root Rake" that has an open tine bottom with 2 "grapples" that will close down to capture your load. I found the 4n1 and the grapple handy but not the best thing for cleaning up in the woods. I was cleaning the woods and putting it into a burn pile and they would gather up a lot of dirt (not good for a fire). I have since sold the 4n1 as I only really ever used it to spread gravel (from a pile), I'd scoop up a bucket full and then open the bucket slightly while moving. The other chore that it was great for was "pinching" up that last little bit for clean up. I got rid of the grappel as well for the same reasons. Other than that it was not so great picking up logs or bursh in the woods. It does not have the visibility either, with the open tines you can look right at what your doing.:thumbsup:
If you meant a bucket with a grapple that closes down on it, look into a root rake type grapple. Very handy! Skid Steer Loader Attachments
If you meant a bucket with a grapple that closes down on it, look into a root rake type grapple. Very handy! Skid Steer Loader Attachments
Code54
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On a side note I would be a little concerned with any dealer that says the 5100 can't handle a hoe. Heck Kubota makes one with a mounting kit for that exact machine. I have run hoes on far smaller machines without a problem so that is kind of shaky advices.
As for buckets, 4n1's are nice but separate buckets are even nicer
As for buckets, 4n1's are nice but separate buckets are even nicer
Ken45101
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I have debated about a 4n1 bucket. However, from what I understand, it is easy to twist them out of shape picking up irregular loads, like a log that's 6" on one side and 2" on the other.
Grapples: there are VERY different styles and how well they operate will vary greatly depending on your needs.
I have a "root grapple" (I think). The front of the tines is upturned and it has two independent clamps. It works well for grabbing lots of brush. It is not very good for grabbing logs. It has to be "stood on end" to get under the logs and it is difficult to grab more than one or two logs. If they are small logs, the clamps will not close far enough to hold onto the logs.
There are clamshell grapples which I would think do a better job of holding smaller logs. There are also grapples with tines low to the ground which would be better at slipping under logs (and maybe brush).
Generally true skid steer attachments are bigger and heavier than some of the attachments made for smaller tractors. Some of the really heavy duty 4n1 buckets can weigh close to 1000# which is taking up a lot of the capacity of the smaller tractor loaders.
Hydraulic lines: if you get something like a grapple, you will, of course, need hydraulic lines to the front. Size and capacity isn't really much of an issue. Yes, it might close a bit slower, but ultimately it will still work with the same pressure. Where hydraulic flow really counts is where you are using something with a hydraulic motor, such as a rotary cutter, auger, saw, etc.
As for adding a backhoe, most tractors need a "subframe" for a backhoe. It is just not wise to attach them only via the 3 pt hitch. They aren't strong enough for that. In most tractors, the engine alone is connecting the front of the tractor to the rear of the tractor! All the stress is on the engine. OTOH, my B21 TLB doesn't even have the 3pt arms installed, they are stored away. The BH is attached to the subframe.
Ken
Grapples: there are VERY different styles and how well they operate will vary greatly depending on your needs.
I have a "root grapple" (I think). The front of the tines is upturned and it has two independent clamps. It works well for grabbing lots of brush. It is not very good for grabbing logs. It has to be "stood on end" to get under the logs and it is difficult to grab more than one or two logs. If they are small logs, the clamps will not close far enough to hold onto the logs.
There are clamshell grapples which I would think do a better job of holding smaller logs. There are also grapples with tines low to the ground which would be better at slipping under logs (and maybe brush).
Generally true skid steer attachments are bigger and heavier than some of the attachments made for smaller tractors. Some of the really heavy duty 4n1 buckets can weigh close to 1000# which is taking up a lot of the capacity of the smaller tractor loaders.
Hydraulic lines: if you get something like a grapple, you will, of course, need hydraulic lines to the front. Size and capacity isn't really much of an issue. Yes, it might close a bit slower, but ultimately it will still work with the same pressure. Where hydraulic flow really counts is where you are using something with a hydraulic motor, such as a rotary cutter, auger, saw, etc.
As for adding a backhoe, most tractors need a "subframe" for a backhoe. It is just not wise to attach them only via the 3 pt hitch. They aren't strong enough for that. In most tractors, the engine alone is connecting the front of the tractor to the rear of the tractor! All the stress is on the engine. OTOH, my B21 TLB doesn't even have the 3pt arms installed, they are stored away. The BH is attached to the subframe.
Ken
greg_g
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That's not a log, that's a cone.
Besides, a typical 4-in-1 has two jaw cylinders; one on either end of the bucket. Pressure is equalized between the two cylinders; when one side jaw grips something that effect bypass, the opposite side simply stops clamping.
//greg//
Ken45101
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So you have 2000 psi (or whatever) pressing against the log on one side and pressing against air on the other side. Seems quite capable of twisting something.
As I've said, I've heard that can be a problem. Most grapples have two independent clamps so that they can clamp irregular loads.
Ken
greg_g
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Sorry Ken, I just can't grasp the concept that "pressing against air" can twist anything. It's not much different than chewing food. And I've been chewing for 64 years without twisting my jaw once.
Most of the add-on bucket grapples I've seen have one center cylinder, a few have had symmetrical side cylinders. Both need only a single controller and two hydraulic hoses. But if I understand your description of "two independent clamps", that pretty much mandates an additional controller valve and four hoses. On a 4-in-1, one controller uses two hoses to operates both jaw cylinders simultaneously. Using your description again, "two independent clamps" on a front loader would need 4 hydraulic circuits (8 hoses) to operate asymmetrically - as opposed to 3 circuits (6 hoses) for a symmetrical 4-in-1 loader. Not that such a device doesn't exist, but a 4th circuit and additional hoses would drive up the price considerably.
//greg//
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I've had a Bobcat 4 in 1 bucket on my 743 for 20 years now, never had any problems with it twisting when picking up a tapered object like a log. Even grabbing something with one side only does no damage. When I used to do excavating work on a regular basis the 4-1 was a godsend, no more chasing around the last little bit of piled material.
I added a grapple several years ago for working in the woods, moving brush and piling logs. mines the "industrial" type so I can use it as a bucket when needed, like moving a small amount of material or back-dragging an area to smooth it out.
Ed
Ken45101
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Take your aluminum screen door. Have someone on the outside put their foot up against the bottom. Now push with all your might on the top (where nothing but air is supporting it). I'll bet it twists....
Ken
I think it's an Australian thing. I've seen YouTube videos with a BH92 attached but it doesn't seem to be an option here. Someone elsewhere said it might be a Tax thing with a change of category or something... or possibly that the dealers don't order the sub frame.
Either way, the dealers just seem to want to sell what they have in stock!
