10-3 Direct Burial wiring question

[woodlandfarms]

Well, darnit... No good deed goes unpunished.

I am running some electrical to my wifes garden. 180 ft run. Wanted to run 10-3 so I could have 2 20 amp legs. Went and priced wire - OUCH. $400 for the run. No way jose. Got on Ebay and found a 200 ft of 10-3 for $150.

Well, of course, it shows up and it is stranded, not solid core. It is direct burial rated, seems freshly cut off a spool. But stranded?

Any thoughts if I can go ahead and use this or did I just make my wire purchase $550?

Carl

 

[BukitCase]

Carl, as long as the wire you have is rated for direct burial it'll work ok ( although I've not seen stranded direct burial wire) - only thing you'd have problems with is connections to outlets, which are hard to connect using stranded wire without losing some of the strands.

Best way around this is use boxes that are a bit deeper than standard, then wire nutting a short "pigtail" of solid core wire to the stranded (# 12 is fine for the solid, since it'll only be a few inches long) - do NOT try to solder these connections - although this seems like a better way, it's against code because a short can heat up the wire above the solder's melt temperature and cause MORE problems.

The short solid pigtail will easily bend into a "U" to fit the screw terminals of your outlets. If you somehow get hold of outlets that also have a PUSH in terminal, I'd not use them - some had pretty "iffy" connection, just a couple of springy leaves so not good for high current.

HTH... Steve

Oh, didn't notice you don't say whether the wire is aluminum or copper - if aluminum, I'm not sure it's OK to use copper pigtails even if you apply "NoAlOx" to the joint -

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

how about running it as 220 to a small dist. box that has lugs for stranded wire?
Then from dist box / sub panel run your 120 lines

 

[wthompson]

i see no problem using the stranded wire as long as it's direct burial/UF. as far as the connects to receptacles, use a yellow fork connector/mechanical crimp type at the screw terminals, and use ground fault receptacles.

 

[CurlyDave]

I just finished wiring a new house, and with #6 and larger all that is available is stranded. I think you will be fine with stranded. It is easier to handle, not as stiff as single strand,

 

[woodlandfarms]

Thanks everyone. Fantastic advice.

It is a copper wire, the jacket states Direct Burial 2008 manufacturing date.

The jacket also states 10-3 and there are only 3 wires. I guess I have been working with ROMEX too darn long cause I always thought 10-3 meant 2 hots, a Nuetral and a ground. This stuff does not have the 4th wire that I expected.

That said, I am going to cobble from some scrap (wire that the previous Meth addict owner used to run his operation with) to create my ground. Not ideal (Code) but it will work.

And that being said, Could I just create a ground by putting a ground post in where these wires come out? I guess it would create a ground loop? (2 Hots, a Nuetral and then tying to the 6 ft grounding rod).

Carl

 

[magicheater]

Just remember that when running 220 on three wires and then splitting 2 110 legs off, the "neutral" is now handling the current sum of both legs, presuming both are used at the same time. Something to think about if you plan to max out the circuit. The neutral and ground should only be joined at the main box where the grounding rods are located.

 

[LarryD]

And that being said, Could I just create a ground by putting a ground post in where these wires come out? I guess it would create a ground loop? (2 Hots, a Nuetral and then tying to the 6 ft grounding rod).

Carl

Not in WA state, you have to ground back at the source. Also, if you do a sub panel, you still have to drive a ground rod there but the nuetral and ground are not bonded. Only back at the main panel as stated. The common nuetral you plan on using is fine but the two hots must have a common trip (two pole breaker) so an electrician will not turn off one leg and think all is safe, I've been there.:shocked:

Now for my personal experience, I would put it all in conduit even though you have UF rated cable. I ran a 30A circuit out to the horse pastures and with trough heaters, lighting, and fence charger it is pushing the limits. Of course the wife bought 1500W heaters for each 100gl trough so now we have 250W heaters and only fill half way during the coldest periods.
I also had the first receptacle as GFCI and ran the others off the load side of that. Even with a weather-proof box, that thing just kept giving me problems so I installed a GFCI breaker. Not nearly as much trouble.

 

[rambler]

That said, I am going to cobble from some scrap (wire that the previous Meth addict owner used to run his operation with) to create my ground. Not ideal (Code) but it will work.

And that being said, Could I just create a ground by putting a ground post in where these wires come out? I guess it would create a ground loop? (2 Hots, a Nuetral and then tying to the 6 ft grounding rod).

Carl

My electrician ran a seperate ground wire with the bundle of hot, hot, nuetral to my machine shed last fall. This was 200 amp hookup. But, I think if you bundle the ground into the group of wires, you'd be ok? The main wires were sperate but twisted into a group, the ground he ran was it's own wire but he bundled it with the main wires, little tape here & there. This was a full fledged, full inspected deal.

As of 2008, you can't do the ground rod only any more, you need the seperate ground wire. Especially for your use, with water & such in an outdoor setting, I'd not do that - it can set up odd loops.

--->Paul

 

[CurlyDave]

Just remember that when running 220 on three wires and then splitting 2 110 legs off, the "neutral" is now handling the current sum of both legs, presuming both are used at the same time. Something to think about if you plan to max out the circuit....

Are you certain about that? The most common way to produce 220 and 110 is with a center tapped 220 V transformer, which means that the the two 110 legs are 180 degrees out of phase with each other.

If both 110 circuits are maxed out, the current is neutralized at the junction box/sub panel. There is no current on the neutral. The most stressful situation for the neutral is where only one circuit is maxed out and then the full current from one hot wire is flowing back through the neutral.

If we start with that situation and then increase current on the second circuit, current increases in the second hot wire, but decreases in the neutral wire.

It is always safe to draw any current on either or both circuits up to the max allowable for the wire. The circuit breakers should be double pole, and sized for the wire ampacity.

Do not put direct burial wire in a conduit. It is both a code violation and unsafe. The reason is that wire in conduit does not dissipate heat nearly as well as wire buried directly in the earth. The insulation can overheat and deteriorate.