Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports

[Scooby074]

And this is why single brand (well two very similar brands now) sponsorship of a general forum where there are MANY competitors is a very bad thing.

Sponsorship in these situations should be limited to sub-forums under the main heading only. ie: Everlast subforum or Longeitivity subforum etc.

I think that Jims posts are far from trying to get free advertising.. If anything his are generally more helpful in that they ARENT continually pushing product like some.

When the day arrives that I get a Plasma, I know which brand I'm getting.

I imagine this thread will be purged soon, I honestly hope it isnt, because people should see an honest comparison of strengths and weaknesses, but the realities lately have shown otherwise.

 

[jimcolt]

Well....in my opinion if you want technical advice on a product (in general) you probably should not look for that advice on a paid for advertising thread.

I spend many hours each week posting on dozens of sites regarding plasma cutting technology. I do work for a plasma manufacturer...yet I post on my own because I happen to like metal fabricating. I own two cnc plasma machines (a Torchmate and a PlasmaCam) and I have 4 different plasma cutters....as well as welders and a variety of other equipment....Oh, and I have a Kubota 4310 and an RTV900...that is why I frequent this site!

I get questions daily asking me why my company (and on this site...due to sensitivity of some of the paid advertisers I have stopped mentioning brand names of plasma systems) does not build a low cost system that would compete on the price level of the dozen or so Chinese imports (very similar, but equipped with different paint jobs, torches and features). The start of this thread was an honest attempt to help determine the difference between the higher cost systems available from the major manufacturers and the low cost units.

For some reason two paid avertisors jumped in and defended their products...one of them providing a personal attack on my integrity (and it is not the first time....step over to the weldingweb.com to see more of his antics!). They should note that I don't mention brand names in this thread.

Anyway....I plan to continue with a series of tech threads describiing technology enhancements that are available with plasma cutting systems today. While some of the technology is proprietary to one or more manufacturers...I will be careful not to advertise one brand name over another. With 35 years of plasma cutting industry experience....most of it in hands on technical positions (product design teams, engineering tech service, cnc machine interfacing, etc), I can help answer most any plasma related questions....


Best regards, Jim Colt

And this is why single brand (well two very similar brands now) sponsorship of a general forum where there are MANY competitors is a very bad thing.

Sponsorship in these situations should be limited to sub-forums under the main heading only. ie: Everlast subforum or Longeitivity subforum etc.

I think that Jims posts are far from trying to get free advertising.. If anything his are generally more helpful in that they ARENT continually pushing product like some.

When the day arrives that I get a Plasma, I know which brand I'm getting.

I imagine this thread will be purged soon, I honestly hope it isnt, because people should see an honest comparison of strengths and weaknesses, but the realities lately have shown otherwise.

 

[jimcolt]

Some technical details regarding your products (no brand names from me) would be very helpful....as opposed to personal attacks on anyone that competes with your product line....or discussions on where you spend your advertising dollars.

How about:

- Duty cycle ratings...please include the necessary ambient temperature as well as arc voltage and amperage that the rating is based on

- Internal innovations....whay makes the system more reliable, what makes it better, how does it handle low or high input voltages?

- What exactly does the warranty cover, and who administers warranty work?

- Advantages of the torch.....cut quality (compare to ISO9013 cut standards?) or other criteria?

- Share the operators and service manuals in .pdf form....would be nice to see how it compares with other manufacturers.

- Continuous cut, auto pilot restart.....does the system have these features?

- Can you switch back and forth between hand and machine torch?

- Drag cutting techniques? What power levels can you drag cut at?

- Piercing techniques and thicknesses for mechanized cutting?

- Electrical interface details. What I/O signals are available?

- CSA and or CE type electrical ratings?


And there are many more questions that people ask me all the time....I'd love to add your info to my list (which covers many manufacturers)....just can't find the data on your site!


Jim Colt

Jim,
We sponsor this WHOLE forum...and have for a couple years now. Our logo is at the top of this page, along with our competitor, and ours is on the main forum page next to the forum. I try to keep my posting confined to our special in regards to putting our product out there, unless someone asks or looks into our product with a dedicated thread. I think a lot of our customers here know that.
I have the email from the forum guys that said they removed your post. Go figure. If you take it as an insult that I have pointed out that your information is out of date, and somewhat wrong, tells me you are awful defensive and thin skinned. Bully posting, Garnering free advertising, backtracking when called on it, and then insulting the sponsors of this forum in retaliation(even in your last post) is definitely something you'd NOT expect from a company that you work for, or of its employees.

As for answering a question, there was no question posed...only the name mentioned in passing. I don't have a problem with people posting on our threads, or our forum. We have a very well respect TD guy here, who definitely knows his stuff... and posts helpful and valuable information in ALL kinds of threads...Do you? And if you or HT were supporting this forum with$$$, then I'd say its a free for all... but trolling around these forums looking for a free chance to plug your product as you have done on multiple forums, and threads, supported by us is something you have done dozens of times, each time pleading ignorance or with excuse when called upon it.

You know your stuff, no doubt, and your advice is valuable as well, but your posts always are angled, even though you throw a disclaimer or two in there.

 

[crazyal]

May I make a suggestion? How about changing the information from Major brand Plasmas vs low cost imports? Instead focus on new technology, how plasma cutters work, the differences between types of systems, etc. You could go into the pros and cons of each type (but avoid getting into the debate about why major brands are better). Possibly a history of and where they are heading.

Just avoid the us (major brands) vs them (Chinese). Something that would inform people interested and educate anyone who may be in the market to buy. I don't care what the subject is, gear vs Hydro, Ag vs R4 tires, etc but when ever a topic comes up that tries to compare products it always turns into a debate why each side is wrong. For example, instead of saying green paint is better than orange because of blank, say green paint with yellow wheels is a classic color scheme and will drive women crazy.

 

[RPW]

I always enjoy reading these forum and get much knowledge even if it's brand x verses brand y. Everyone has there favorites. I only skimmed over the posts as it seems to be a debate between two posters who are also advertiesers (can't spell today) but what my 2 cents worth is this;

First decide ony your needs - This is very important and most people will recognise this. If you are a commercial shop then by all means get the cutter (or whatever) that you need to make your business grow and produce the hightest quality product that you can. If you are a hobbiest then a lower cost import may be what you need to look for. For me personally I would prefer to by American but not many products are 100% made in USA. If I remember right to place a "Made in America" label you only need to have about 70% assembled here. So even though it helps our economy by buying american in reality or practice it's not possible. No saying that I don't have a problem buying an import if it meets my needs as a hobbiest. Warranties are just an insurance that you as the purchaser gets saying that the product will fail with a specified time and the manufacturer is betting it won't. For electronics if it makes it a year then it's probably not going to fail as long as resonable care is given. As to the topic of plasma cutters I purchased one from HF. Didn't get the extended warranty and have been using it for about 5 years now. I've also gotten there 90amp wirefeed. Using good quality wire (HF isn't) I've made good welds for someone who doesn't weld much. I also have Miller and Lincoln equipment too. I purchase equipment to meet my needs (and wants ).

Again just my 2 cents.

 

[Jim in ICT]

Not exactly...I have been involved in dealer development for a long time, much longer than my time with Everlast with major companies....So, you shouldn't be surprised to see me show up on your door step if you are serious, as I have done many times. Financial commitment, business plan, financials and a lot more work goes into it than what you see on the surface, including a minimum, initial purchase, continuous inventory requirement, media, advertising etc.

That's not how your website reads: " Our national sales manager will have a short telephonic chat with you after which you will be approved a dealer under one of the many dealership packages we offer. Based on this approval and your first order you will be selected".

I guess I need to read between the lines.

I did a search for my closest dealer by zip code and got the location of our local grade school and a generic toll free number. Nice.

 

[hodge]

That's not how your website reads: " Our national sales manager will have a short telephonic chat with you after which you will be approved a dealer under one of the many dealership packages we offer. Based on this approval and your first order you will be selected".

I guess I need to read between the lines.

I did a search for my closest dealer by zip code and got the location of our local grade school and a generic toll free number. Nice.

I would also like to know about the closest dealer- I tried that, and it showed a map with a dealer in the woods, about 3 miles from my house. To my knowledge, the only thing there is an old CCC camp.

 

[jake98]

I guess if you are an industrial manufacturing bean counter or engineer, you need to know every minute detail of how plasma systems perform. For guys building, and doing repairs, on different metals and thicknesses every day, the issue is probably more like, 'does it work?'. For my use, all that info is a waste. If you could make fire come out of a ...
At any rate, I'm still thrilled with the performance of my Everlast. And with today's fast shipping, I'd just as soon have any service issues dealt with at the source, rather than by a guy down the road. Heck, half of our groceries are coming from amazon.

 

[Ken45101]

I would also like to know about the closest dealer- I tried that, and it showed a map with a dealer in the woods, about 3 miles from my house. To my knowledge, the only thing there is an old CCC camp.

Yes, very interesting. I tried it too and pretty much the same results except no CCC camp, no roads, no buildings....

 

[jake98]

Hey, I just googled the moon... guess what?? The dealer was 3 miles away! :laughing: