Brake Controller Reese vs. Prodigy vs. ???

[yelbike]

And here I thought it meant "Da wife" lol

 

[jejeosborne]

Ok if we want to talk statistics, get the Maxbrake. If you want to statistically be less of a risk on the road, get the Maxbrake. I have no experience with the Maxbrake but from what I see, it is going to give the best results for emergency braking. That said, I wouldn't spend the extra dollars over the prodigy unless I towed weekly.

The prodigy inertia style are the second best. I used a prodigy for ten years in my last truck until I recently bought a new Ford with the factory controller. The prodigy performed very good and I felt safe with it.

I think they should outlaw timer based controllers I had one for a week before the prodigy and who wants to risk waiting on a timer in an emergency?

Jeff

 

[crazyal]

What about custom lines? When I switched my old Jeep CJ5 from a master cylinder under the floor to master cylinder on the firewall, I basically had to make all new lines. Of course, as part of that, I bought a double flare tool kit and benders to do it properly.

If the "T" is added properly, with correct fittings and double flaring it should not be an issue. And, pressure transducers are used all over in applications like this...

Adding this "T" and sensor, then bleeding the system is not really any different than replacing a master cylinder, wheel cylinder, or calipers.

This is not like adding a "T" and running the hydraulics to the trailer, like in the old days... No way would I do that...

All I said is I don't like to tap into a brake line. It's messy, I prefer not to mess with leaking brake fluid. I don't like to bleed the system after doing the work, that's just me.

A friend had a Max Brake type system (don't know what brand it was) added to his 2003 GMC 1 ton. He owns a sprinkler business and uses a gooseneck to haul large quantities of pipe to jobs. I'm not sure why he went with that type of controller.

What I do know is that at 8,000 miles his antilock brake system failed. If you pushed on the brake pedal too hard it would just go to the floor. While I'm sure the pressure switch had nothing to do with it GM would not cover it under the warranty. It was a simple excuse for them to say "you messed with the system so we're not covering it".

But I also don't have a wide range of trailers that I pull. For someone who does it could be a real good option. I've also never had an issue pulling an empty trailer vs a loaded one with my prodigy controller.

 

[Soundguy]

for the guy that tows a smallish trailer 1-2 per year or every couple months, the cheaper controllers are fine.. and i'd rather they have them than nothing at all!

if you don't like 'waiting' then dial down the time / up the response sensitivity. my hoppy has an adjuster.. i know some don't etc.

i like my prodigy better than my drawtight or hoppy types.. but I have hauled many many many thousands of miles all over the southeastern and south west as far as NM using a hoppy controller. had plenty of panic stops along the ways. no accidents.. didn't cause any.. still in one piece.

too many variables to paint a 1 size fits all picture.

soundguy

Ok if we want to talk statistics, get the Maxbrake. If you want to statistically be less of a risk on the road, get the Maxbrake. I have no experience with the Maxbrake but from what I see, it is going to give the best results for emergency braking. That said, I wouldn't spend the extra dollars over the prodigy unless I towed weekly.

The prodigy inertia style are the second best. I used a prodigy for ten years in my last truck until I recently bought a new Ford with the factory controller. The prodigy performed very good and I felt safe with it.

I think they should outlaw timer based controllers I had one for a week before the prodigy and who wants to risk waiting on a timer in an emergency?

Jeff

 

[RobertN]

It's not my favorite either. Icky, messes up paint, pain in the behind. In the case of the old Jeep, almost everything had to be replaced. So did it right. And, used to have to work on stuff like that working on race cars(years ago, circle track "street stocks").

Had to help the kid with brakes on his Bronco. That fluid was nasty...

I have been very happy since I upgraded from an older Tekonsha Sentinel to the Prodigy...

All I said is I don't like to tap into a brake line. It's messy, I prefer not to mess with leaking brake fluid. I don't like to bleed the system after doing the work, that's just me.

But I also don't have a wide range of trailers that I pull. For someone who does it could be a real good option. I've also never had an issue pulling an empty trailer vs a loaded one with my prodigy controller.

 

[jejeosborne]

for the guy that tows a smallish trailer 1-2 per year or every couple months, the cheaper controllers are fine.. and i'd rather they have them than nothing at all!

if you don't like 'waiting' then dial down the time / up the response sensitivity. my hoppy has an adjuster.. i know some don't etc.

i like my prodigy better than my drawtight or hoppy types.. but I have hauled many many many thousands of miles all over the southeastern and south west as far as NM using a hoppy controller. had plenty of panic stops along the ways. no accidents.. didn't cause any.. still in one piece.

too many variables to paint a 1 size fits all picture.

soundguy

The only way for ANY timer based controller to be safe in an emergency stop is to make it full on with NO delay. When I say full on, I mean the maximum gain setting just prior to wheel lock up. If wheels don't lock up, set the gain at the full setting.

As long as you drive with this uncomfortable whiplash setting then you are as safe as the prodigy inertia type. My bet is that you don't operate that way or you would look like a bucking bronco coming up to the stop light. I know because that is how I drove mine with my family in the truck. I would lightly touch my brake and the rv would aggressively stop my rig. Remove my light pressure and it felt like we got rear ended. Repeat this process all the way to the red light. Forget the DW giving you the WTH look. Turn down the gain to make it comfortable, and you've reduced the emergency maximum too and put my family at risk.

The prodigy types allow you to set the maximum gain but doesn't use it unless needed. The not much cheaper timer units are on or off with a little preset ramp (which should be zero for emergency). For little money savings why risk lives and allow them on the roads?

I am glad that no one was hurt during your panic stops but believe you would have stopped even sooner with the prodigy type controller. I have made panic stops with no trailer brakes and survived as well. I guess we are both lucky.

I still believe that there are no variables in any timer types I have seen and that they are all unsafe unless operated in a very uncomfortable fashion.

Jeff

 

[Diamondpilot]

When I did it I lost less than a oz of fluid. I put a lid from a spray paint can under it and only got a drip. The brake line lost no fluid and got no air in it since it was higher. Simply put the T in and leave the sending unit a little lose and then have someone pump the brakes and tighten. Done in less than 5 minutes...

Takes longer to run the wire though the firewall and mount the controller.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

I am glad that no one was hurt during your panic stops but believe you would have stopped even sooner with the prodigy type controller. I have made panic stops with no trailer brakes and survived as well. I guess we are both lucky.

I don't disagree. a better controller would have been better.

I still believe that there are no variables in any timer types I have seen and that they are all unsafe unless operated in a very uncomfortable fashion.

Jeff

I got one in my truck.. has a 2nd dial on the side. controls speed the brakes apply. dial it down and hit the brakes and watch the numbers slowly climb. dial it up and hit the brakes and the numbers quickly climb. at max up, and you hit the brakes it pretty much jumps to 10 with perhaps 1 number briefly flashed inbetween so fast you couldn't see it. on lowest setting, it REALLY takes it's time like maybee 2 or 2.5 seconds for full on.

you also have the panic switch available to punch and go max immediatly reguardless what the brakes are telling it...

just saying. not everybody needs a sledghammer to put in a thumbtack.

if a guy is gonna avoid hooking up his brakes becaus ethe only 'allowed' controllers are hundreds of bucks, OR he's gonna have some level of brakes because he can buy a 50$ cheaper controller... I WANT the guy to have SOME brakes!

think real world here. you make it too hard.. and a good section of the population will ignore it completely. you make it easier to comply.. or stepped levels of compliance.. and you will get more participants.

all or nothing thinking usually gets you nothing.

soundguy

 

[Diamondpilot]

I agree, not everyone needs the best. This is true with all things. I have a relatively cheap trailer, tractor, ect.

My 06 Ford F-350 4x4 Powerstroke has the factory brake controller in it. Its pressure driven and is by far the best controller I have used and I have used a bunch, maybe 25 or more different ones in all types and makes of vehicles.

In my 08 Titan I just have a cheap Reese WalMart version. It works for no more than I tow but its by no means as nice as the Ford one but it was also about $75.

The Max Brake is by far the best aftermarket controller in my experience but if you don't want to spend $350 then the P3 by Prodigy is a good buy at around $130 and will do everything one needs but for that matter so will the $50 one from WalMart.

Chris

 

[timswi]

I agree, not everyone needs the best. This is true with all things. I have a relatively cheap trailer, tractor, ect.

My 06 Ford F-350 4x4 Powerstroke has the factory brake controller in it. Its pressure driven and is by far the best controller I have used and I have used a bunch, maybe 25 or more different ones in all types and makes of vehicles.

In my 08 Titan I just have a cheap Reese WalMart version. It works for no more than I tow but its by no means as nice as the Ford one but it was also about $75.

The Max Brake is by far the best aftermarket controller in my experience but if you don't want to spend $350 then the P3 by Prodigy is a good buy at around $130 and will do everything one needs but for that matter so will the $50 one from WalMart.

Chris

Agreed...The cheaper ones just take more playing around....A few trucks ago I had a hand-me-down controller that was probably 15 years old...Did just fine with a 30' travel trailer, once I figured out it's behavior...The OEM on my GMC needs virtually no adjustments once the tow load is established..The factory ones are top notch.

 

[jejeosborne]

Soundguy,

That lever wouldn't do me much good in an emergency. I would have my hands full with the steering wheel. That is more for setting up the gain and possibly straightening out a sway problem.

Do you set yours with gain turned up to the maximum level that just barely keeps the tires from locking with the timer set to none? If so, do you find it difficult to make gradual gentle stops?

 

[jejeosborne]

I agree, not everyone needs the best. This is true with all things. I have a relatively cheap trailer, tractor, ect.

In my 08 Titan I just have a cheap Reese WalMart version. It works for no more than I tow but its by no means as nice as the Ford one but it was also about $75.

The Max Brake is by far the best aftermarket controller in my experience but if you don't want to spend $350 then the P3 by Prodigy is a good buy at around $130 and will do everything one needs but for that matter so will the $50 one from WalMart.

Chris

I agree the best is not necessary but the middle of the road should be standard. I don't appreciate my life being put at risk because someone didn't want to spend an extra $50. If they are only driving on private property then I don't care.

My thoughts are that if you can afford a trailer then an extra $50 for a safer controller shouldn't make or break you (pardon the pun). I am just surprised with all the towing laws and automobile safety requirements that in today's world, the timer based controllers are still allowed. The costs of the inertia style controller would go down if more were produced.

I know you are very experienced in towing as well. I will ask you the same questions i asked soundguy. When you use your timer based controller, do you set the gain at the highest level possible just before wheel lockup and the time ramp set to zero? If so, do you find it difficult to make gradual gentle stops? I did and found it was too aggressive for a comfortable ride and had to dial back my gain. We both know my doing so lengthen my emergency stopping distance. I threw it in the trash the next day and bought a prodigy because I had my family with me while towing an rv.

I guess someone could get used to the aggressive setting and just come in a little "hot" to each intersection to prevent the whiplash effect. Then you would just have to pray that they brakes are going to work since you delaying when you would normally brake.

 

[timswi]

I agree the best is not necessary but the middle of the road should be standard. I don't appreciate my life being put at risk because someone didn't want to spend an extra $50. If they are only driving on private property then I don't care.

My thoughts are that if you can afford a trailer then an extra $50 for a safer controller shouldn't make or break you (pardon the pun). I am just surprised with all the towing laws and automobile safety requirements that in today's world, the timer based controllers are still allowed. The costs of the inertia style controller would go down if more were produced.

I know you are very experienced in towing as well. I will ask you the same questions i asked soundguy. When you use your timer based controller, do you set the gain at the highest level possible just before wheel lockup and the time ramp set to zero? If so, do you find it difficult to make gradual gentle stops? I did and found it was too aggressive for a comfortable ride and had to dial back my gain. We both know my doing so lengthen my emergency stopping distance. I threw it in the trash the next day and bought a prodigy because I had my family with me while towing an rv.

I guess someone could get used to the aggressive setting and just come in a little "hot" to each intersection to prevent the whiplash effect. Then you would just have to pray that they brakes are going to work since you delaying when you would normally brake.

It really isn't that binary..There are driving behaviors that should be known before one would attempt a heavy haul of anything. I learned that pretty quick...Never needed a hot hit except when a microburst hit my TT across a bridge once....Had a couple hundred pounds of liquid oxygen onboard for my daughter...So, yes I was being overly cautious when that happened. Dental records wouldn't have helped if things would have gone wrong. Fortunately they didn't.

It's beyond cautionary driving in my case...I lost the TT power cord on a long hill once...You really do have to be prepared for anything...

 

[crazyal]

When I did it I lost less than a oz of fluid. I put a lid from a spray paint can under it and only got a drip. The brake line lost no fluid and got no air in it since it was higher. Simply put the T in and leave the sending unit a little lose and then have someone pump the brakes and tighten. Done in less than 5 minutes...

Takes longer to run the wire though the firewall and mount the controller.

Chris

Part of my dislike comes from the numerous times when the nut on the brake line didn't want to thread back into the cylinder as brake fluid is leaking everywhere.

 

[Soundguy]

I agree the best is not necessary but the middle of the road should be standard. I don't appreciate my life being put at risk because someone didn't want to spend an extra $50. If they are only driving on private property then I don't care.

.

it's still an all or nothing deal.

you make it where a controller costs 150 to 300+ $ and the amount of people buying them will DROP the streets will be LESS safe.

you make it where someone can buy a 50$ controller.. and alot of them WILL.

again.. i'd rather there be some brakes on a trailer,vs none, and i want more people than less people to have those 'some' brakes vs no brakes.

couple that with driving habits. some people ar einherently safer drivers.. they allow more following distance, plan their stops longer away..look ahead in traffic and scan around looking for more dangers.. while some speed excessively, drive agressively, follow too closely, and make fast eratic movements.. all bad-juju situations for towing. put that awefull driver in a truck with a 300$ CONTROLLER, AND HE'S STIULL GONNA BE WRAPPED AROUND A T-POLE SOMEWHERE DUE TO HIS BAD HABITS.

Another thing is failure. another poster mentioned a plug coming undone. that happened to me in texas. raod drbris ( balck aligator ) snatched the trailer plug out of the socket. I immedialy noticed the error and planned my stop and got off the road into a parking lot. was on a sunday, holiday morning out in BFE rural texas. not a store that I knew of for miles.. or .. well.. maybee hundreds of miles. trailer plug had already worn down one side. I didn't like the idea of having to white knuckle limp somewhere with no trailer brakes. so my buddy and me laid ont he ground in the cold weather for about an hour with a knife, roll of tape, zip ties and some tools and got the trailer wires semi-permanently installed to the truck with a bit of cut and splice and alot of tape and zipties.

no controller, no matter how much it cost would have helped when that plug got ripped out. it then became a driver control issue.

just so many variables.

trailer smaller/less mass than tow vehicle.

trailer larger / less mass than tow vehicle

trailer larger / more mass than tow vehicle.

throw in brake capacity and capacty that is realistically available with load, on the trailer. IE.. an empty trailer contributes less mass to the rolling load.. but it's brakes are also less effective.

in the end.. i decide my money was better spent, safety wise, on a different tow rig, vs what was plugged in under my dash. i ditched trying to tow with 1/2 ton trucks, and almost never tow with my 3/4 ton either. it's all 1 ton or 1.5 ton for me.. more rubber on the road.. more stable. more brake capacity and stability on the tow vehicle.. etc.

i know that's not an apples to apples comparison.. but when I had a half ton and a middle of the line controller.. myt thougts of more safety went beyond a top end controller..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Soundguy,

That lever wouldn't do me much good in an emergency. I would have my hands full with the steering wheel. That is more for setting up the gain and possibly straightening out a sway problem.

Do you set yours with gain turned up to the maximum level that just barely keeps the tires from locking with the timer set to none? If so, do you find it difficult to make gradual gentle stops?

i like to mount my brake controllers within easy reach of the steering wheel. after all.. they don't call it a panic button for nothing. as for hands full.. IMHO.. most people should be able to control a vehicle with 1 hand, leaving the other available to shift gears.. etc. i realize in an emergency situation sifting is lower on the priority list than say, negotiating a curve with oncoming traffic in your lane.. but still.. if you can't maneuver cause yer dogging down in 5th and need 2nd.. then that hand had bettter be able to reach over..

as for adjustment.. it all depends on what / where i am pulling. I usually adjust my brakes at something less than max.. .. for instance. lets say that 6.5 starts felling the drag, and 10 is max locked up. I'd likely go 7.5 to 8 with medium onset on a timed unit.

after all.. I can hover over the brake pedal and engage it enough to light my brake lights and trip the trailer switch to start engageing befor emy truck pads and shos ever hit disc or drum. that's part of watch ahead and good driving. only time I use fast onset on that controller is in traffic that does the bumper to bumper move stop thing.. and on that.. I don't use max setting.. that would shake yer teeth. since you aren't moving fast.. the 6.5 is enough to arrest trailer inertia, but I want it fast. ie.. fast and weak or medium. vs slower and stronger. and if I need fast and strong.. the button is right next tot he radia, a few inches from t he steering wheel.

 

[jejeosborne]

i like to mount my brake controllers within easy reach of the steering wheel. after all.. they don't call it a panic button for nothing. as for hands full.. IMHO.. most people should be able to control a vehicle with 1 hand, leaving the other available to shift gears.. etc. i realize in an emergency situation sifting is lower on the priority list than say, negotiating a curve with oncoming traffic in your lane.. but still.. if you can't maneuver cause yer dogging down in 5th and need 2nd.. then that hand had bettter be able to reach over..

as for adjustment.. it all depends on what / where i am pulling. I usually adjust my brakes at something less than max.. .. for instance. lets say that 6.5 starts felling the drag, and 10 is max locked up. I'd likely go 7.5 to 8 with medium onset on a timed unit.

after all.. I can hover over the brake pedal and engage it enough to light my brake lights and trip the trailer switch to start engageing befor emy truck pads and shos ever hit disc or drum. that's part of watch ahead and good driving. only time I use fast onset on that controller is in traffic that does the bumper to bumper move stop thing.. and on that.. I don't use max setting.. that would shake yer teeth. since you aren't moving fast.. the 6.5 is enough to arrest trailer inertia, but I want it fast. ie.. fast and weak or medium. vs slower and stronger. and if I need fast and strong.. the button is right next tot he radia, a few inches from t he steering wheel.

Well that answers my questions. Just realize that operating with this lowered setting increases stopping distance in a emergency or should I say panic stop. I have never seen a panic button so i need to read up on that. I consider myself a skilled driver with decent reflexes being that I race motorcycles through the woods and do some crazy high speed stuff. This said, while towing 7000 plus pound trailer behind me and someone pulls out in front of me, I will probably not attempt one hand on the wheel maneuvering.

If you had a prodigy controller during your alligator incident, it would have alerted you on the display of a trailer connection issue and would have been very helpful. They only cost a little over a $100 dollars now.

I agree with the fact that people even today who should have a controller, don't. It is not legal none the less.

I too change my driving habits under tow. Early cars only had brakes on the rear axle and a careful drive could adapt to that again today as well. I am only concerned when I am presented with an emergency. If I drove a semi and knew I would come out uninjured if some meth-head pulled out directly in front of me, I wouldn't be so vocal. I don't want to take the chance it may be a mother with her kids in the car instead.

I appreciate this friendly exchange and hope I am not coming off too strong. I just sometimes enjoy a little debate.
Jeff

 

[Diamondpilot]

Agreed...The cheaper ones just take more playing around....A few trucks ago I had a hand-me-down controller that was probably 15 years old...Did just fine with a 30' travel trailer, once I figured out it's behavior...The OEM on my GMC needs virtually no adjustments once the tow load is established..The factory ones are top notch.

Yep, though to beat the factory ones. I have used a few of the Fords and one GM but not yet the Dodge.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

On my time base Reese unit it only has one control knob. I just get the rig going 20 mpg and hit the test button on it. If the brakes lock up I back it off some. If they dont lock up I increase the power till it locks up then back it off. It may take some tweaking as you head down the road.

One issue with a inertia system for me is backing down a boat ramp. This is not a issue for most but a 15,000# boat or heavier will pull a diesel 1 ton backwards. This is a very good place for the pressure driven system like that on the Max Break along with the factory ones from Ford and GM.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

This said, while towing 7000 plus pound trailer behind me and someone pulls out in front of me, I will probably not attempt one hand on the wheel maneuvering.

If you had a prodigy controller during your alligator incident, it would have alerted you on the display of a trailer connection issue and would have been very helpful. They only cost a little over a $100 dollars now.

I just sometimes enjoy a little debate.
Jeff

I enjoy a good debate too.

One reason i went to a bigger truck was that my trailer laods were hitting and passing the 7k limit, and am way mor comfortable pulling say.. 10-12k (total) on a 14k GN trailer, than pulling 7k total on a 7k BP trailer, not to mention the larger tow vehicle.

Most? of the units I see have some sort of lever, slide or test button, that when hit can act as your panic button. the nicer ones are progressive. slide it a lil and it engages a lil.. a cheap one I have is on / off.. IE.. hit the button and it engage brakes..e tc. but then it was 35$ when I got it, and doesn't even have a power read out.. just 3 leds.. red for fault, green for power/trailer attached, and yellow for brakes being applied.

Yes.. the prodigy gives me a "NC" if the plug falls out. the cheaper unit didn't tell me anything till I tried hitting the brakes... deffinately a benefit of a better controller. All my timed controllers were bought back when I only towed up to 7k. IE.. a few different flatbeds.. a couple enclosed trailers and a horse trailer. I DID step up to a prodigy when I got GN / 5th whl capability. If I ever have to get another controller, I would get the prodigy again.

soundguy