Root Grapple?

[Rhinorider]

Just wondering who out there in TBN land has a root grapple? What brand and pro's and con's on each? I'm in the market for one real soon. Oh BTW I have a Kioti DK45 HST.

 

[IslandTractor]

Just wondering who out there in TBN land has a root grapple? What brand and pro's and con's on each? I'm in the market for one real soon. Oh BTW I have a Kioti DK45 HST.

What do you mean by root grapple? I ask because the term is used in a variety of ways. I have a "root grapple" (see icon photo) that is also referred to as a "standard grapple" or open bottom grapple. It is able to snag roots but the normal orientation of the grapple has the bottom tines pointed forward and parallel to the ground. A different type of grapple, sometimes called root grapple and sometimes claw grapple, has the "bottom" tines vertically oriented.

True Root grapples or root rakes are mounted on bulldozers. The short stubby arms of the bulldozer are appropriate for powering the grapple through the ground. The long skinny arms of a tractor are really not engineered or built to do serious "root grappling" when driving. They are designed more to drive up to a bush, stop, dig the grapple under the bush, lift, clamp and drive forwards or backwards to finish removing the root/stump.

Sorry if that is unclear. A picture is worth a thousand words though so look at a bulldozer mounted grapple rake and you will see what I mean.

I have a Kioti DK40se and the same grapple you see mounted on my old CK20 is on the DK. Excellent match. Don't spend more than $700-1000 bucks delivered. Check out Wildkat or Gator. Lots of folks here have them and they do a fine job.

 

[Ken45101]

I agree with Island Tractor.

What job do you want to do with the grapple? I have one for the skid steer, with the typical upturn on the ends of the tines. It's not very good a digging roots, it has to be stood on end. It's not very good for raking up debris, the upturn rides over everything. It's not ideal for grabbing a pile of debris because the clamps are in the way. It's poor for grabbing logs on the ground to pick up and carry, again because of the upturned ends.

If I had it to do over again, I would get something that has the ends of the tines at ground level. Most "root grapples" do no.

Yes, mine works and is useful, but not nearly as much as I expected. It might be even more difficult on a tractor where you can't really see the ends of the tines.

Ken

 

[IslandTractor]

It's not very good a digging roots, it has to be stood on end. It's not very good for raking up debris, the upturn rides over everything. It's not ideal for grabbing a pile of debris because the clamps are in the way. It's poor for grabbing logs on the ground to pick up and carry, again because of the upturned ends.

If I had it to do over again, I would get something that has the ends of the tines at ground level. Most "root grapples" do no.

Yes, mine works and is useful, but not nearly as much as I expected. It might be even more difficult on a tractor where you can't really see the ends of the tines.

Ken

I guess I have to disagree with some of your points. Photos follow.

Grabbing logs is duck soup for virtually any type of grapple other than a bucket grapple and even that works OK. The type of grapple I have easily picks up a full load of logs. There are two ways to load it though. You can try to slip the bottom tines under the log and then clamp it but even easier is to open the grapple full and then tilt it so the open jaws are pointed down at the log pile. Then just drop the thing onto the logs and clamp. I have a photo doing that with loose woody debris.

The grapples are also pretty good at digging out roots. You just don't do it while moving. Drive up to the stump or bush or small tree. Push on the tree/bush to reveal where the main supporting roots are (they will bulge beneath the turf). Next just insert the bottom tines under the root and curl/lift the grapple. Depending on the size of the root/bush you will either pop the whole thing out or for larger trees/stumps you will rip that root and then work your way around the tree until it is unstable and can be pushed over. That technique works up to about a 5 or 6 inch diameter trunk and works with any size bush. The OP has the same loader I do so I know it has the power to rip roots up to about 3 inches in a single curl. Bigger roots sometimes need to be dug up a little further from the stump to rip them.

Brush is very easy to pick up with a grapple but is best done by using the grapple first to push it all into a pile. You then use the open grapple face down approach to squash the pile down before closing the jaws. I can get so much brush in one bite that I cannot see where I am driving!

I think Ken seems to be looking for a bulldozer type root rake rather than root grapple. Trouble is that while the clamshell type grapples do allow easier raking while moving, I still think it is a mistake to use a tractor FEL as a bulldozer. Just not engineered for the strain of hitting an immovable object like a big rock or buried stump while the 5000lb tractor with all its momentum is moving forward. It is especially dangerous if the immovable object is off centerline as that can twist the FEL arms. Tractor FELs are loading devices and are engineered to lift. Bulldozer "FEL" arms are stout, short and much more heavily built just for the purpose of absorbing those types of shock forces.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

A grapple is used to grab and carry; not to rip with.

Sure, a grapple works great if you need it. And cost effective if you need it a lot.

I usually throw a logging chain around the stump or sapling, and hook it to the tow bar to pull out and drag to the pile.

I'll wrap the chain around a bundle of brush and tow it the same way.

 

[Rhinorider]

Actually my main purpose is to use it to pick up brush, tree limbs, and to tear out the roots of saplings. I have about 8 acres of woods I am clearing all the under brush out, there is a ton of Autum Olive bushes, dead trees, etc. I also built a pig pole that mounts to my FEL that I can reach 20 feet with and about 8 feet out in front of the FEL mounting plate. I am going to mount a hydraulic chain saw to it and drop the low hanging branches. The grapple will be the berries for picking up all of the debris. I saw one I liked on everything attachments, but a bit pricey at $1800. If I can't find anything at a more reasonable price I 'll build one. A 4 x 8 x 3/8 sheet of Hardox 400 is $547 and I have the rest of the steel, I would have to get a couple short cylinders also.

 

[IslandTractor]

Actually my main purpose is to use it to pick up brush, tree limbs, and to tear out the roots of saplings. I have about 8 acres of woods I am clearing all the under brush out, there is a ton of Autum Olive bushes, dead trees, etc. I also built a pig pole that mounts to my FEL that I can reach 20 feet with and about 8 feet out in front of the FEL mounting plate. I am going to mount a hydraulic chain saw to it and drop the low hanging branches. The grapple will be the berries for picking up all of the debris. I saw one I liked on everything attachments, but a bit pricey at $1800. If I can't find anything at a more reasonable price I 'll build one. A 4 x 8 x 3/8 sheet of Hardox 400 is $547 and I have the rest of the steel, I would have to get a couple short cylinders also.

How does $500 plus shipping sound? Call Wildkat and ask about their economy 48" grapple.

By the way, spending money on high strength steel is just throwing it away. 3/8" mild steel is perfectly adequate for CUT grapples. I don't believe anyone on TBN has managed to destroy one yet. My 3/8" Millonzi which is very similar to the Wildkat is in it's seventh season and going strong.

 

[JPCjr]

I have very similar needs, about 10 acres of woods with lots of Autumn Olive and dead trees. I want to clean up the dead trees and get rid of the Autumn Olives. We plan on building a house out there in about a year. I may try to clear the driveway and home site also. I have a Bobcat CT450 and after a lot of research I decided on this grapple:

60" Root Grapple Rake $1375.00 | Grapple Bucket Attachments | 60" Grapple Rake | palletforks.com

I think that design will be more efficient for what I'm trying to do. We'll see, it'll be here next week.

 

[Ken45101]

I have very similar needs, about 10 acres of woods with lots of Autumn Olive and dead trees. I want to clean up the dead trees and get rid of the Autumn Olives. We plan on building a house out there in about a year. I may try to clear the driveway and home site also. I have a Bobcat CT450 and after a lot of research I decided on this grapple:

60" Root Grapple Rake $1375.00 | Grapple Bucket Attachments | 60" Grapple Rake | palletforks.com

I think that design will be more efficient for what I'm trying to do. We'll see, it'll be here next week.

If I were to do it over again, I think that may be the design that I would want to try.

As has been said earlier, "root grapple" is a very vague term with many different designs.

 

[HCJtractor]

Listen to Island Tractor!! Everything he said is gospel! I also bought a 48" grapple from Markham (like the Wildcat, I think) and it is awesome. Mounted on a 70 horse Kubota, it is a beast for clearing land, moving debris, uprooting trees (up to 6" diameter). Don't get one wider than 48" and one hydraulic "thumb" on top is plenty. All of his pictures say it all. It works flawlessly. I have used my countless hours and made mountains of debris piles.

 

[PapaPerk]

Actually my main purpose is to use it to pick up brush, tree limbs, and to tear out the roots of saplings. I have about 8 acres of woods I am clearing all the under brush out, there is a ton of Autum Olive bushes, dead trees, etc. I also built a pig pole that mounts to my FEL that I can reach 20 feet with and about 8 feet out in front of the FEL mounting plate. I am going to mount a hydraulic chain saw to it and drop the low hanging branches. The grapple will be the berries for picking up all of the debris. I saw one I liked on everything attachments, but a bit pricey at $1800. If I can't find anything at a more reasonable price I 'll build one. A 4 x 8 x 3/8 sheet of Hardox 400 is $547 and I have the rest of the steel, I would have to get a couple short cylinders also.

A Ratchet Rake may work best for ripping out the small sapplings and roots. The grapple may not be able to grapple them. :laughing:

 

[IslandTractor]

I have very similar needs, about 10 acres of woods with lots of Autumn Olive and dead trees. I want to clean up the dead trees and get rid of the Autumn Olives. We plan on building a house out there in about a year. I may try to clear the driveway and home site also. I have a Bobcat CT450 and after a lot of research I decided on this grapple:

60" Root Grapple Rake $1375.00 | Grapple Bucket Attachments | 60" Grapple Rake | palletforks.com

I think that design will be more efficient for what I'm trying to do. We'll see, it'll be here next week.

That is a claw grapple. They have some nice features but also have some significant disadvantages compared to the standard "root grapple" or open bottom grapple types.

The key advantage is that they have lots of tines and can more easily push small debris into piles.

There are many disadvantages however. First is that the entire load is clamped only with hydraulic pressure. If you open the grapple the load falls out. With a standard root grapple the load is really supported by the bottom tines which are parallel to the ground (not vertical like the claw) and therefore gravity does most of the work. You can load something into a standard grapple then open the jaw and load something else without the initial load falling out. Another problem with claws, related to this, is that you have a very hard time picking up more than a few branches or logs. The reason is that the pinch point will contact whatever the biggest log/branch is and nothing below that can be clamped. Not an issue with the standard grapple.

The final point is that claws are invariably more expensive (2x-3x) because they require more steel for the full length upper jaw and two hydraulic cylinders instead of one (and are therefore heavier which is a disadvantage).

Bottom line is that the claws certainly work but unless you have a very specific task cleaning up small debris like loose firewood size stuff (not brush, brush is very sticky and can be collected efficiently by any grapple) then a standard grapple will give you better bang for the buck and net lift capacity.

 

[HCJtractor]

That is a claw grapple. They have some nice features but also have some significant disadvantages compared to the standard "root grapple" or open bottom grapple types.

The key advantage is that they have lots of tines and can more easily push small debris into piles.

There are many disadvantages however. First is that the entire load is clamped only with hydraulic pressure. If you open the grapple the load falls out. With a standard root grapple the load is really supported by the bottom tines which are parallel to the ground (not vertical like the claw) and therefore gravity does most of the work. You can load something into a standard grapple then open the jaw and load something else without the initial load falling out. Another problem with claws, related to this, is that you have a very hard time picking up more than a few branches or logs. The reason is that the pinch point will contact whatever the biggest log/branch is and nothing below that can be clamped. Not an issue with the standard grapple.

The final point is that claws are invariably more expensive (2x-3x) because they require more steel for the full length upper jaw and two hydraulic cylinders instead of one (and are therefore heavier which is a disadvantage).

Bottom line is that the claws certainly work but unless you have a very specific task cleaning up small debris like loose firewood size stuff (not brush, brush is very sticky and can be collected efficiently by any grapple) then a standard grapple will give you better bang for the buck and net lift capacity.

I would also add that a claw grapple cannot dig. One of my most common tasks with my grapple is to uproot trees like IslandTractor suggested. I approach the tree (up to 6" diameter) and push it high up the trunk until it tips slightly and the root ball begins to lift. I then back up, tilt the lower tines down about at a 45 degree angle, and push them under the root ball, and then curl up as I drive forward. The tree is plucked from the ground. A extremely strong root may have to be approached from several directions before it surrenders. I would also suggest putting a rake or box blade on the rear to assist in raking up debris for the grapple to pick up, although you can also rake with the grapple tines pretty well. But I use both the front and rear and this works really well.

 

[IslandTractor]

I would also add that a claw grapple cannot dig. One of my most common tasks with my grapple is to uproot trees like IslandTractor suggested. I approach the tree (up to 6" diameter) and push it high up the trunk until it tips slightly and the root ball begins to lift. I then back up, tilt the lower tines down about at a 45 degree angle, and push them under the root ball, and then curl up as I drive forward. The tree is plucked from the ground. A extremely strong root may have to be approached from several directions before it surrenders. I would also suggest putting a rake or box blade on the rear to assist in raking up debris for the grapple to pick up, although you can also rake with the grapple tines pretty well. But I use both the front and rear and this works really well.

I agree regarding the digging under trees/roots. It is not only the angle of the lower tines but also the short length that makes it inefficient with a claw grapple. .

I have always bulled over bushes and small trees so there is never any really small debris to pick up that might fall out of a standard grapple. If one was routinely cleaning up after firewood production or chainsawing of trees I can see a possible advantage of a claw grapple for that task. However, in the six or seven years I have been using my grapple to clear overgrown fields I have never once wished I had a claw. Occasionally I think I should put some spacer tines in my lower grapple arm but only when collecting rocks does it make any difference.

I have occasionally put a rake on the 3PT but usually find it becomes clogged with roots or vines so I've learned to just leave that stuff and mow it with either bush hog or flail set low. Instant mulch.

 

[schmism]

How does $500 plus shipping sound? Call Wildkat and ask about their economy 48" grapple.

sounds like your off by $400 or roughly 80%.

the econo 48" is $900 with $193 in shipping to my zip. (i called and asked)

so ya your back to $1100 grapple and its only 4' wide

 

[Rhinorider]

HCJ You mentioned NOT to go wider than 48", can you elaborate?

 

[schmism]

HCJ You mentioned NOT to go wider than 48", can you elaborate?

Take a look at the pics, most if not all items that are picked up by the grapple dont take advantage of the extra foot or 2 in lenght.

The addtional width = more weight.

The only reason i would want a 5' version for my TC33 is because thats how wide my tractor is. and if im doing clearing operations with it i want the bucket/grapple to push a path at least as wide as the tractor.

 

[IslandTractor]

sounds like your off by $400 or roughly 80%.

the econo 48" is $900 with $193 in shipping to my zip. (i called and asked)

so ya your back to $1100 grapple and its only 4' wide

I don't know what's going on with their pricing. They sold that same grapple a few months ago for $500. I had not heard of a near doubling in price though frankly that just makes them competitive with Gator who has a similar light duty grapple. I would check to see of they have one listed on eBay as I saw one there for $500 a while back. You might also search on Wildkat here to see what others have paid recently and to make sure you are asking for the right model.

48" is actually the preferred grapple width for most any CUT. 48s are lighter giving you greater net lift capacity and the narrower width allows you to concentrate force when digging so they are more effective than wider grapples for stump removal or taking out brush. Also cheaper and more maneuverable. One more advantage is that the 48 width only overlaps the FEL arms by a bit so there is less risk of snagging an outside edge that will twist the FEL. 48s can carry more logs and can cram in as much brush as any other size. The only area where wider grapples have an advantage is clearing construction debris or actually raking ground but neither of those is a common activity for typical homeowner use.

 

[IslandTractor]

[QUOTE="]
The only reason i would want a 5' version for my TC33 is because thats how wide my tractor is. and if im doing clearing operations with it i want the bucket/grapple to push a path at least as wide as the tractor.[/QUOTE]

I have a lot of experience driving into thick brush with my 65" wide tractor using the 48" grapple. Not an issue. Brush is "sticky" so as you push in the stuff in front drags down the stuff on both sides. Wheels just run over the flattened brush. Also, typically you are grappling whatever is in front and then backing out with a grapple full so you don't usually push in much more than to the front wheels in heavy brush unless you are mowing.

 

[buck12]

I don't know what's going on with their pricing. They sold that same grapple a few months ago for $500. I had not heard of a near doubling in price though frankly that just makes them competitive with Gator who has a similar light duty grapple. I would check to see of they have one listed on eBay as I saw one there for $500 a while back. You might also search on Wildkat here to see what others have paid recently and to make sure you are asking for the right model.

48" is actually the preferred grapple width for most any CUT. 48s are lighter giving you greater net lift capacity and the narrower width allows you to concentrate force when digging so they are more effective than wider grapples for stump removal or taking out brush. Also cheaper and more maneuverable. One more advantage is that the 48 width only overlaps the FEL arms by a bit so there is less risk of snagging an outside edge that will twist the FEL. 48s can carry more logs and can cram in as much brush as any other size. The only area where wider grapples have an advantage is clearing construction debris or actually raking ground but neither of those is a common activity for typical homeowner use.

I bought the WildKat in January for $500 plus $126 shipping to terminal. That price was less the hydraulic fittings and less the quick attach setup. I had brackets fabricated to work with my pin-on loader. The 48" grapple has amazed me at what it can do.