Better to idle the tractor or turn it off?

[3forever]

I have grown up around mechanics my whole life and have always been told a diesel is meant to be run and not be turned on and off constantly. When i use my tractor for work and am done i will let it run just above idle 20 minutes or so to let fluids dissipate heat then shut down, just what i been taught and works for me and my tractor.

 

[8404]

if i were manualy unloading a loader i would leave it running. When im bush hogging i dont shut the engine off untill ive got the tractor back on the trailer, Ive learned the hard way about shutting it off just to take a pee break one time i did shut it off in the middle of a job and my battery decided to quit on me and the tractor was stuck in the middle of the field far from where if could get a truck to it. if i would have just left it running i would have finished the job and got paid, and then found out my battery was bad only after it was back on the trailer.

 

[TripleR]

if i were manualy unloading a loader i would leave it running. When im bush hogging i dont shut the engine off untill ive got the tractor back on the trailer, Ive learned the hard way about shutting it off just to take a pee break one time i did shut it off in the middle of a job and my battery decided to quit on me and the tractor was stuck in the middle of the field far from where if could get a truck to it. if i would have just left it running i would have finished the job and got paid, and then found out my battery was bad only after it was back on the trailer.

:laughing::laughing: I know the feeling, I did the same thing while bush hogging trails at the back of our 300 acre farm, down in a valley with steep inclines on both sides. When I got back on my key broke off.

I have trouble walking, so after a few minutes of "quiet contemplation" was able to find a way to the starter through the FEL, brackets and shroud to jump it. I NEVER shut that tractor off again unless I was at the barn.

 

[HatTrickHero11]

Haha those two stories of getting stuck made me laugh. You raise a good point about the battery, although I only live on 3 acres so if it dies, it wouldn't really matter. It would be close always.

 

[jayhaitch]

Here are some facts:

1. Most wear does occur during start up.
2. Cold diesels do create oil wash down, which contaminates the oil reducing lubricity, and increases cylinder wear.
3. Diesels use very little fuel at idle due to varying the air/fuel ratio (can be ~ 100:1) vs gasoline engines (stoichiometric ratio is 14.7).
4. Starters are cheaper than engines.
5. A little expensive fuel used during idle is cheaper than starters and engines.

Final result: you decide!

Me? I run by Massey at 2600 rpm when working, and will idle down to around 1600-1800 rpm when manually loading, unless it's a hot mid-summer day and I want to cool it down a bit. Then I'll go to slow idle. These are for up to 10 min sessions. Anything more than that I will shut down, though I'll slow idle for 3-5 min to cool it down first.

If I'm using it in the middle of our prairie winters, idle might be 2000 rpm as I want to keep generating heat, bioth for the hydraulics and the engine.

 

[Reg]

So far every post has missed the most important argument for not stopping and starting a lot. Gasoline engines are cheaper to repair than diesels and the general public would never buy the following argument anyway.

I have been around mechanical equipment, of all types, all my life; installed it, serviced it, overhauled it, and rebuilt it. Anything that rotates has a dwell time when starting before lubrication hits its peak performance. That is where wear occurs, metal to metal vice a film of lubricant. Forget the starter issue, that is a minor thing compared to the cost of replacing moving parts in the engine. Stationary equipment that runs all the time with no stopping except for service, runs forever. Stuff that cycles on/off a lot never lasts as long. Those engines the gas companies use to maintain pipeline pressure run millions of hours.

A little fuel cost beats an early overhaul any day. I run my BX at idle when getting on and off a lot and only turn off if leaving it long enough to cool all the way down.

Ron

No.
This is a very popular misconception.

Oil between close fitting parts does NOT drain down, not in minutes, hours, days, weeks, months or even years.
Even oil ON exposed surfaces takes a very long time to "leave".

If you doubt this dip a piece of (very rust prone) mild steel in hot thin oil, hang it out to dry somewhere, check it for oiliness or rust every few years.

Push rods, con rods, etc stay very "oil wet" for a very long time.
Ask any antique car buff who has just pulled a 1930s car out of a barn and stripped the engine. The oil in the pan may be congealed, but the bearings and other close fitting parts still have their oil.
(see surface tension, capillary attraction, etc., it just doesn't LEAVE)

 

[SPYDERLK]

No.
This is a very popular misconception.

Oil between close fitting parts does NOT drain down, not in minutes, hours, days, weeks, months or even years.
Even oil ON exposed surfaces takes a very long time to "leave".

If you doubt this dip a piece of (very rust prone) mild steel in hot thin oil, hang it out to dry somewhere, check it for oiliness or rust every few years.

Push rods, con rods, etc stay very "oil wet" for a very long time.
Ask any antique car buff who has just pulled a 1930s car out of a barn and stripped the engine. The oil in the pan may be congealed, but the bearings and other close fitting parts still have their oil.
(see surface tension, capillary attraction, etc., it just doesn't LEAVE)

Good points. Some oil remains on the surfaces indefinitely. There is even an oil film between surfaces that have settled against one another while stationary. Good hydrodynamics relies on more than a residual film tho, so there is ~some~ accelerated wear as relative motion commences and liftoff occurs using sparse residual oil while fresh oil is slightly delayed. ... I would really like to see a well thot out and presented study gauging this phenom. - Then I would like to see a 2nd, independent of the 1st, that gives similar indications. ... I suspect that the proportional rate and duration of the hi wear event causes the stop start issue to be down in the noise in normal use circumstances. After all, there may a wear rate of 10x normal during 1/2sec startup, but that only shortens life by 5 seconds. ... Now, if its on/off every minute or so that could be an issue. :confused3:
larry

 

[Soundguy]

i'd like to see an electric pre-lube oil pump that comes on during glow cycle times for a diesel.. I'd pay extra for that..

 

[Don87]

I'll do a low idle for 2 to 3 minutes, any longer than that......i'll do a fast idle. If I'm going to be sitting for any more than 10 to 15 minutes.....I generally shut down.

I'm a firm believer in 'diesels were meant to run'..........but only to a certain degree.

To those complaining about trucks running at the trucks stops:

Any night you are ready to take the plunge........go to a truck stop, park between 2 trucks, shut your car/pickup off and roll the windows up.........at 30 degrees farenheit........then go to sleep. Call me after your required 10 hour break and let me know how it went.
On the reverse side, park between 2 trucks when the temp is 75 degrees farenheit, on that blistering pavement, in the blazing sun...........again, call me after your required 10 hour break and tell me how it went.

As an over the road driver, I spend 240 days and nights per year in my truck, away from home.

It's easy to sit there in your heated/air conitioned house and complain about us guys that delivered everything you own, but, until you been a driver............you ain't got a clue!

 

[Bigfoot62]

I'll do a low idle for 2 to 3 minutes, any longer than that......i'll do a fast idle. If I'm going to be sitting for any more than 10 to 15 minutes.....I generally shut down.

I'm a firm believer in 'diesels were meant to run'..........but only to a certain degree.

To those complaining about trucks running at the trucks stops:

Any night you are ready to take the plunge........go to a truck stop, park between 2 trucks, shut your car/pickup off and roll the windows up.........at 30 degrees farenheit........then go to sleep. Call me after your required 10 hour break and let me know how it went.
On the reverse side, park between 2 trucks when the temp is 75 degrees farenheit, on that blistering pavement, in the blazing sun...........again, call me after your required 10 hour break and tell me how it went.

As an over the road driver, I spend 240 days and nights per year in my truck, away from home.

It's easy to sit there in your heated/air conitioned house and complain about us guys that delivered everything you own, but, until you been a driver............you ain't got a clue!

Good post.

My only question is where do you find an overnight low of only 75 degrees? Around here, summertime low temps are often well above that.

 

[Don87]

Good post.

My only question is where do you find an overnight low of only 75 degrees? Around here, summertime low temps are often well above that.

Actually I meant that as a daytime high, but with that said...........

These are examples of temps where most people have in their head that it is ok to shut a truck off, but in reality..........those temps can and have actually led to the deaths of children and pets left in cars while parents go into casinos and bars.

I mean...........every week we hear of another toddler or animal dying, in a car, in those 'mild conditions' yet people with no common sense whatsoever think it's ok for a trucker to try to endure the same thing that is killing others.

WTF?????

And just to clarify..........I have been driving for over 11 years. At one time or other...........I have serviced almost everyone on TBN..........whether you know it or not. I've hauled the steel that makes your cars/tractors/implements, the food that you eat, the bottled water you drink, the sodas you drink, the food you eat, the shingles, styrofoam, the lumber for your houses, fertilizer for your fields.............fishing poles, reels,tents, sleeping bags.......solo cups, coolers..............if you got it.............it may have been delivered by me!

EDIT: and if I offended anyone.........deal with it!

I am out there on the road, delivering the garbage you want to buy on a daily basis while you sit in the comfort of your home(with heat/air) telling me to go without heat or air.

If it were up to me..........I would let every one of ya go without for at least 1 solid month(or better yet 3) til ya understood what real life is all about!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HiValley]

This is a very interesting paper prepared by NTS for the US DoD titled:
THE EFFECTS OF LONG TERM HIGH IDLE OPERATION ON DIESEL ENGINES.
38 pages but worth the read.
Here is the link if your interested:
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA151273

 

[rsewill]

Actually I meant that as a daytime high, but with that said...........

These are examples of temps where most people have in their head that it is ok to shut a truck off, but in reality..........those temps can and have actually led to the deaths of children and pets left in cars while parents go into casinos and bars.

I mean...........every week we hear of another toddler or animal dying, in a car, in those 'mild conditions' yet people with no common sense whatsoever think it's ok for a trucker to try to endure the same thing that is killing others.

I'm a trucker who couldn't sleep with the truck running. I shut it off at +100 or at -40. Used a fan for cooling and lots of sleeping bags to keep warm, with a foam pad on top of the mattress to keep the cold from coming up. I carried enough extension cords to plug in the block heater when needed. Mosquitos were the worst thing I had to deal with.

 

[Don87]

This is a very interesting paper prepared by NTS for the US DoD titled:
THE EFFECTS OF LONG TERM HIGH IDLE OPERATION ON DIESEL ENGINES.
38 pages but worth the read.
Here is the link if your interested:
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA151273

That was a very interesting and informative read, thanks for posting it.

 

[Don87]

I'm a trucker who couldn't sleep with the truck running. I shut it off at +100 or at -40. Used a fan for cooling and lots of sleeping bags to keep warm, with a foam pad on top of the mattress to keep the cold from coming up. I carried enough extension cords to plug in the block heater when needed. Mosquitos were the worst thing I had to deal with.

sleeping with the truck running does take some getting accustomed to.

Your chemistry may be different than most, but ther's a secondary factor to my previous posts that most aren't aware of:

If it's too hot or cold, most people can't get into REM sleep mode. Without the benefit of REM sleep, you now have a 'sleepy driver' traveling down the highway in a 70 foot long vehicle that weighs 80,000 lbs.

Not entering REM sleep mode is also caused by 'sleep apnea', a condition that can cost a driver his CDL.

 

[Reg]

Good points. Some oil remains on the surfaces indefinitely. There is even an oil film between surfaces that have settled against one another while stationary. Good hydrodynamics relies on more than a residual film tho, so there is ~some~ accelerated wear as relative motion commences and liftoff occurs using sparse residual oil while fresh oil is slightly delayed. ... I would really like to see a well thot out and presented study gauging this phenom. - Then I would like to see a 2nd, independent of the 1st, that gives similar indications. ... I suspect that the proportional rate and duration of the hi wear event causes the stop start issue to be down in the noise in normal use circumstances. After all, there may a wear rate of 10x normal during 1/2sec startup, but that only shortens life by 5 seconds. ... Now, if its on/off every minute or so that could be an issue. :confused3:
larry

I think the only thing that "running it" adds is the cooling effect of circulating oil, but once switched off you don't need the cooling effect of circulating oil anyway.
Heat soak is temporary and it is just an internal movement of heat anyway, i.e. there is not a net heat gain just a heat distribution.

I do believe in quantum theory, but I doubt that (m)any of us are going to save ourselves a whole unit of starter motor repair/replacement by leaving a tractor running, or save a boat load of money by switching it off - so it is probably awash, or 5c one way vs a nickle the other way.

 

[Soundguy]

. At one time or other...........I have serviced almost everyone on TBN..........whether you know it or not. I've hauled the steel that makes your cars/tractors/implements, ............it may have been delivered by me!

Thank you!

. EDIT: and if I offended anyone.........deal with it!

Hey, I've heard it said that if what you say / do doesn't offend at least 1 person somewhere along the way.. you may not be saying or doing enough!

soundguy

 

[jonyyuma]

Thank you!



Hey, I've heard it said that if what you say / do doesn't offend at least 1 person somewhere along the way.. you may not be saying or doing enough!

soundguy

Very Possably so..Offended, not in any-way... trucking over the road was not my style, so Thanks here too...I did learn not to rent a motel next to a Big truck stop.. before the new regulations.. It is againest the law to leave the truck engine running for sleepers, in this area..Supposedly because we are the Crossroads for the south here, and air smog.?. The solution was to install a small pony motor on the truck to power the cab air or heat. Now the truck stops in West Mem. have the window units for the cabs..

 

[Soundguy]

i've seen rigs with a small gasser or propane(whisper / honda) genny on back to power a low wattage unit as well.

 

[PapaPerk]

I live on about 3 acres and we had two huge mulch piles dumped. I take the bucket and get a scoop and haul it to the back yard to spread around the plants to prevent weeds. Now when I have to park the tractor and manually unload the stuff my hand so I can better spread it.(takes around 10 minutes) should I slow the RPMs and idle the tractor, or turn it off?

It's an older tractor. Maybe the later 80s

Shut it down. You are just wasting fuel (money) and adding hours (more money).