Global Warming?

[newbury]

Why aren't you angry at Congress?

If you want to get angry at people, get angry at the congress of this country that has been bought and paid for by corporate lobby money,

Seems he is.
/edit - seems a lot of us just to conclusions without reading.

 

[RaydaKub]

Seems he is.
/edit - seems a lot of us just to conclusions without reading.

Fair enough. But this thread is 85 pages long and I ain't got THAT much time.

 

[newbury]

Fair enough. But this thread is 85 pages long and I ain't got THAT much time.

You had the time to quote from the same post.

 

[Rob-D]

Why aren't you angry at Congress? They are the ones that have created the imbalance you rail against. All the USSC did was say that corporations may not be discriminated against when it comes to donating money for an election. Unions have donated just as much to pull things the other way. Both are made up of real people. In the State of the Union address last year, the President included a bald faced lie that "this opened the door for foreign corporations to come in and influence our elections." Foreign contributions are still supposed to be illegal as far as I know, even from individuals (though Obama's campaign seems to list numerous contributions from abroad).


I believe that Exxon Mobile was (until Apple's emergence) the largest corporation in the United States. However, do you realize that as of 2010, Exxon Mobile is only the 17th largest oil company on the planet, having 2% of the known reserves and handling 3% of the total oil volume across the planet? Do you really think you are going to change anything by railing against "Big Oil"? They are tiny compared to Saudis and China.

When you rant about Big Oil, it is really no different than how you view those on the other side ranting about Al Gore.

OK, let's talk about lobbying CC and Exxon/Mobil because that's what this thread is about.

What kind of influence do you think Exxon/Mobil is concerned about with respect to Congress?

How about this:

Exxon Mobil : Influence / Lobbying

American Petroleum Institute (API) American Petroleum Institute
The oil industry's think-tank, explains that its 'most pressing issues revolve about public perceptions and government policies toward our industry -- many of which have international dimensions' [61], one of these issues being climate change. The institute lobbies against any action on climate change that could be perceived as a threat to the petroleum industry, and is extremely sceptical about the science behind climate change. 措T]he debate is about whether enough is known about climate change to warrant the lost jobs, higher consumer prices and a weakened U.S. economy that would come with implementing the Kyoto Protocol, an agreement which at best would make only slight progress toward solving climate change [62]. ExxonMobil is a financial supporter of the API and sits on the board. In 1998, Exxon helped API to plan its $ 7 million PR campaign to undermine confidence in the scientific consensus about climate change [63]. The API is a member of the Global Climate Coalition (see below).

Sure they're skeptical about CC, it affects them directly.

"A climate sceptic organisation, representing a diverse range of US businesses. The GCC argues that 'Unrealistic targets and timetables, such as those called for under the Kyoto Protocol, are not achievable without severely harming the U.S. economy and all American families, workers, seniors and children [69].'"

Let's put out the 'red herring' that it will affect the US economy and the poor worker who Exxon/Mobil couldn't give a fiddle about. Ring a bell? This is the same tactic Massey Energy uses when it fights for mountain top coal mining while it is doing its best to reduce jobs by automation and people like Don Blankenship walks around with an American flag shirt making 190 millioon bucks while the people he's 'helping' have soaring cancer rates and WV is one of the poorest states in the nation.
We never do get exactly HOW this is going to ruin us but it's pretty easy to see that it affects THEIR profits.

Did Exxon tell people to reduce their energy usage for the true benefit of the planet? Do you think they want people to stop driving gas guzzlers? They aren't lobbying to reduce energy consumption, they're lobbying to muddy the research on CC though because that affects their MONEY.

Rob

 

[Oaktree]

Al Gore,

I think we should all stop and think about why there is this anger and focus on Al Gore because he is really insignificant in the scheme of things and what is happening in this country and world.
Yet we constantly have this focus on him and this anger as though he is causing our problems. There are many, many scientists from around the world talking about CC, pollution and the severe problems this world is having and will continue to have if we don't change our ways and I think they are right.
I'm terribly concerned about the world food and how agribusiness is controlling food and seed.

We can not survive as a republic with this kind of power crushing us but Monsanto wants nothing more than you to blame Al Gore, tree huggers, etc. It's the old ploy, "watch my lefty hand while my right hand slaps you!" So think about why you are angry at Al Gore and why you aren't raving mad at monsters like Monsanto, Exxon Mobil, Bayer and Dupont who are literally controlling our world.

Sheesh! Take a pill, calm down.
Ok, we get that you don't like big corporations. If our government officials (Democrats and Republicans alike) didn't have the "for sale" sign out these companies wouldn't have gotten this much power. And if we, the voters would actually get involved and demand accountability from our politicians maybe we'd have some integrity in government.
No, Al Gore isn't the problem, but he certainly is a hypocrite going on and on about how we have to change our ways while he's flitting around the country on private jets.

Yes, we need to reign in our wasteful ways...unfortunately, no one wants to give up what they feel they "deserve". I suppose I'm equally to "blame"...I don't want to be forced to drive some little tin can car like a Yaris because some government official declares war on SUVs.

How do you convince people to do change their ways? If you have the answers, why not take a leadership role yourself instead of just ranting on message boards?

I think everyone should be jumping up and down about the fact that Monsanto can sue Vermont because Vermont wants to label GMOs.

Guess what? You're next!

Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Winning is another matter.
Vermont is one of the least business-friendly states in the country. They do a lot of stupid things in the name of environmentalism.


Don't get me wrong, our present economy is not sustainable long-term. We do need to find a balance between technology and nature (for lack of a better word). Growing heirloom tomatoes on the family farm ain't gonna cut it in the 21st century though. Like it or not, we're not an agricultural society anymore where everyone has access (or desire to access) to organically produced food. Hence GMOs. Agree 110% that safeguards are necessary, with realistic rules that are enforced. Needlessly alarming the public with unfounded allegations is not the way to go.

 

[patrick_g]

Study finds surprising Arctic methane emission source

Posted: 24 Apr 2012 11:51 AM PDT

The fragile and rapidly changing Arctic region is home to large reservoirs of methane, a potent greenhouse gas. As Earth's climate warms, the methane, frozen in reservoirs stored in Arctic tundra soils or marine sediments, is vulnerable to being released into the atmosphere, where it can add to global warming. Now a multi-institutional study has uncovered a surprising and potentially important new source of Arctic methane: the ocean itself.

Oh and any claims to the contrary not withstanding this thread is about what Bird said it was about when he named it. Irrespective of digressions roving far afield or agendas being touted as the way, the truth, and the light, the topic still is about global warming. Someone will always show up and DEMAND that everything must be stated to his satisfaction or else, believing his notions are sacrosanct and alternate views are criminal. What I want to know is why is everybody picking on poor old A& ^%#@ an= $((*&58 tttttt WE T*FO if you can't take a joke.

Oh, Hi, Egon. Your starting to look reconstituted.

Pat

 

[Rob-D]

Sheesh! Take a pill, calm down.
Ok, we get that you don't like big corporations. If our government officials (Democrats and Republicans alike) didn't have the "for sale" sign out these companies wouldn't have gotten this much power. And if we, the voters would actually get involved and demand accountability from our politicians maybe we'd have some integrity in government.
No, Al Gore isn't the problem, but he certainly is a hypocrite going on and on about how we have to change our ways while he's flitting around the country on private jets.

Yes, we need to reign in our wasteful ways...unfortunately, no one wants to give up what they feel they "deserve". I suppose I'm equally to "blame"...I don't want to be forced to drive some little tin can car like a Yaris because some government official declares war on SUVs.

How do you convince people to do change their ways? If you have the answers, why not take a leadership role yourself instead of just ranting on message boards?



Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Winning is another matter.
Vermont is one of the least business-friendly states in the country. They do a lot of stupid things in the name of environmentalism.


Don't get me wrong, our present economy is not sustainable long-term. We do need to find a balance between technology and nature (for lack of a better word). Growing heirloom tomatoes on the family farm ain't gonna cut it in the 21st century though. Like it or not, we're not an agricultural society anymore where everyone has access (or desire to access) to organically produced food. Hence GMOs. Agree 110% that safeguards are necessary, with realistic rules that are enforced. Needlessly alarming the public with unfounded allegations is not the way to go.

First, I am calm, very calm. Secondly, how do you know what I'm doing environmentally, besides net zero and a long list of other environmentally positive actions?

"Yes, we need to reign in our wasteful ways...unfortunately, no one wants to give up what they feel they "deserve"."

But you won't drive a small car? What you "deserve" better? Your welfare is more important than the person driving the small car? Move over Al I think someone has your hypocrisy beat!

The thing that kills is speed and it also use a lot more fuel because as we go faster wind resistance multiplies logarithmically.

"Vermont is one of the least business-friendly states in the country. They do a lot of stupid things in the name of environmentalism."

Oh, Vermont puts the environment before the buck, hey I think I found some people who are willing to, how did you put it? "Give up their wasteful ways". maybe you and our Congress could learn something here?

Monsanto sues small farmers when Monsanto's seed blows on their fields. The small farmers don't want Monsanto's seed but Monsanto crushes them anyway. They win because they have the bucks and small farmers can't fight them. Monsanto is destroying seed from countries that have been saving seed for 10,000 years, now Monsanto has "terminator seeds", you get one season and then you have to buy seeds all over again. What happens when they mix with conventional seed? No more conventional seed ,that's what happens. Now Monsanto owns all the seed in the world which is exactly what they want, but people want to get mad at Al Gore because some talk show host leads them into the sea like lemmings.

"How do you convince people to do change their ways? If you have the answers, why not take a leadership role yourself instead of just ranting on message boards?"

How do people convince you to change your ways? Isn't that the question, you're the one who things Vermont is putting the environment before business. They don't look like they are suffering to me.

And I have taken a leadership role.

Rob

 

[mostly_gas]

Patrick why are you picking on poor Rob?

 

[LazySusanFarms]

Yes. What Al Gore said, did, does is immaterial and has been for over 10 years. It is happening and no amount of carping and poining fingers will have an effect on it.

If one can't discuss it without bring up Al Gore, they don't have anything reasonable to contribute to the discussion.

Harry K

Al Gore, actually Kleiner Perkins, is an easy target because they use the idea of CC to make money, not to affect CC. Living in America requires that you play by these rules or you will most likely fail. CC is real but the discussion is always hostile because we want to blame it on someone or something and most people don't like being told that they may be, in some small way, part of the problem.

Very smart and important people are working on this problem right now and they do not care what everyone thinks about the changes that will be forced on all of us. These people want a zero carbon footprint in the US by 2050 and they have the money and smarts to do it. They will innovate a solution that gets us there because it will make them wealthy beyond imagination. Some of these people are already wealthy beyond any measurement. They find this to be a worthy cause AND it has a real return on their invested time and resources. This is much more important than OWS or KONY 2012. We live in a flawed economic and political system that must be used to get where we want to go. Fighting the system itself will get you nowhere.

As individuals, we must live the life that we want and provide an example for others. How you go about it is your business and your business only. Do not get furstrated because you cannot get the systems in this country to cooperate. We can all add to the solution in our own way. People whine about PayPal all of the time but the money made by selling PayPal to Ebay may, one day, help find the solution to all of this mess. There are literally hundreds of other examples.

We live in a great country where we can *****, moan, whine, think, innovate and invent all we want. The biggest invention in India so far in the last 20 years was a foot operated water pump for the fields that could be sold inexpensively. This helped stop the process of CARRYING water everywhere. Family members take turns standing and operating the pump with their feet each day. While we would all like other people to live like us or else, that approach will not solve our problems. Currently, China is only allowing 6% of eligible drivers to receive their license for fear of even worse pollution. Even 6% is too much for the environment.

Find real solutions for our real problems and you will live to be satisfied. A man who can look back with satisfaction on how he lived his life has lived twice. Our states, counties and cities have real problems facing them. Live your life how you want but, at least, be part of the solution and be satisfied.

 

[SPYDERLK]

First, I am calm, very calm.But you won't drive a small car? What you "deserve" better? Your welfare is more important than the person driving the small car? Move over Al I think someone has your hypocrisy beat!

The thing that kills is speed and it also use a lot more fuel because as we go faster wind resistance multiplies logarithmically.

"Vermont is one of the least business-friendly states in the country. They do a lot of stupid things in the name of environmentalism."

Oh, Vermont puts the environment before the buck, hey I think I found some people who are willing to, how did you put it? "Give up their wasteful ways". maybe you and our Congress could learn something here?

Monsanto sues small farmers when Monsanto's seed blows on their fields. The small farmers don't want Monsanto's seed but Monsanto crushes them anyway. They win because they have the bucks and small farmers can't fight them. Monsanto is destroying seed from countries that have been saving seed for 10,000 years, now Monsanto has "terminator seeds", you get one season and then you have to buy seeds all over again. What happens when they mix with conventional seed? No more conventional seed ,that's what happens. Now Monsanto owns all the seed in the world which is exactly what they want, but people want to get mad at Al Gore because some talk show host leads them into the sea like lemmings.

"How do you convince people to do change their ways? If you have the answers, why not take a leadership role yourself instead of just ranting on message boards?"

How do people convince you to change your ways? Isn't that the question, you're the one who things Vermont is putting the environment before business. They don't look like they are suffering to me.

And I have taken a leadership role.

Rob

Oh, surely he needs an SUV. I drive in rush hr traffic and the whole dam road is full of bill board butt vehicles aggressively jockeying for position, travelling without payload, even with driver considered. He needs the SUV so he can see ahead.

BUT whats this about terminator seeds? They dont destroy conventional seeds do they.
larry