need help finding a HYD tap adapter for a Satoh Beaver

[Freakingstang]

I started making my own.... Took some measurements. I had a junk cylinder from an air compressor at work that already had one 3/8npt threaded hole. I lined up the cross hole and cut some meat out and marked my
Holes...

Just gotta clean it up and run a pipe tap down it and I should be good to go.... Now I'm just waiting on my power beyond plug to show up...

 

[modifyit]

I started making my own.... Took some measurements. I had a junk cylinder from an air compressor at work that already had one 3/8npt threaded hole. I lined up the cross hole and cut some meat out and marked my
Holes...
Just gotta clean it up and run a pipe tap down it and I should be good to go....
Now I'm just waiting on my power beyond plug to show up...

Where will the plug be installed to convert this to the power beyond feature? The part you're making will have both a high pressure port to power the new valve and a return port to carry fluid to the reservoir from what the setup looks like.

I have a ways to go before I get into the hydraulics of this FEL and maybe by that time I'll know how this thing works. When the three point lever is in the down position or the neutral position, the pump is forcing fluid through that second hole in the original block to the reservoir (gearbox). So it seems that the hole that must be plugged is the return hole in the original block because internally the porting in the gearbox will allow fluid to drain from the three point piston side. With that hole blocked, is there really a need for both holes in the adapter that is being manufactured? It seems there would only need to be one port to transfer pressure to the loader valve. Unless of course the second port will also be a pressure port for some later application. And once connected to the loader valve, porting in that valve would dump pressure through a second drain line to the transmission/reservoir.

Wow, does any of that make sense. It confused me!

 

[Freakingstang]

Where will the plug be installed to convert this to the power beyond feature? The part you're making will have both a high pressure port to power the new valve and a return port to carry fluid to the reservoir from what the setup looks like.

I have a ways to go before I get into the hydraulics of this FEL and maybe by that time I'll know how this thing works. When the three point lever is in the down position or the neutral position, the pump is forcing fluid through that second hole in the original block to the reservoir (gearbox). So it seems that the hole that must be plugged is the return hole in the original block because internally the porting in the gearbox will allow fluid to drain from the three point piston side. With that hole blocked, is there really a need for both holes in the adapter that is being manufactured? It seems there would only need to be one port to transfer pressure to the loader valve. Unless of course the second port will also be a pressure port for some later application. And once connected to the loader valve, porting in that valve would dump pressure through a second drain line to the transmission/reservoir.

Wow, does any of that make sense. It confused me!

The power beyond pulg goes into the new loader joystick valve. This is the way the original hyd adapters were it is no different that cutting the discharge of the pump, putting in a compression barb and adding a valve that way.

All the block does is creates a loop or a tee. Itflows out out the pump, into the joystick valve, then the three point valve. that is why I can't run a resevoir because the 'return' from the loader valve is still pressurized.


There is no return on the original block. There is a concave hole on the cap, that allows both holes on the line to connect. I'll get a pic of the outside of the factory line. It has both holes, but you can't see it from the tractor side of my pic. It was nothing but a factory access point instead of a hard line with one hole in it permantley mounted. I think you are thinking about it too hard.... lol

 

[modifyit]

The power beyond pulg goes into the new loader joystick valve. This is the way the original hyd adapters were it is no different that cutting the discharge of the pump, putting in a compression barb and adding a valve that way.

All the block does is creates a loop or a tee. Itflows out out the pump, into the joystick valve, then the three point valve. that is why I can't run a resevoir because the 'return' from the loader valve is still pressurized.


There is no return on the original block. There is a concave hole on the cap, that allows both holes on the line to connect. I'll get a pic of the outside of the factory line. It has both holes, but you can't see it from the tractor side of my pic. It was nothing but a factory access point instead of a hard line with one hole in it permantley mounted. I think you are thinking about it too hard.... lol

I believe where I am hung up on the whole deal is that when I raise the three point on my tractor, if I continue to force the lever into the lift position, the cylinder bottoms and the pump relief valve opens. Then in the neutral position, the high pressure obviously dumps (because the pump stops screaming) to the transmission/reservoir, and likewise in the down position because the implement on the three point drops by gravity. At that point does the pressure at that adapter not drop significantly? I might just make an adapter and install a pressure gauge on the thing so I can find out where I'm going wrong.

You stated, it flows out of the pump and into the joystick valve and then into the three point. I can see that happening if you splice into the pressure line ahead of the three point. But if the original pressure line is intact to the three point, then obviously pressure to the joystick will come from the new adapter. Then the flow is from pump to three point then through the adapter to the new valve. It's very simple if the pressure is always high at the adapter. Heck, I don't know. When you get the thing working maybe you can find time to sketch up a flow diagram so even I can understand. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Freakingstang]

You stated, it flows out of the pump and into the joystick valve and then into the three point. I can see that happening if you splice into the pressure line ahead of the three point. But if the original pressure line is intact to the three point, then obviously pressure to the joystick will come from the new adapter. Then the flow is from pump to three point then through the adapter to the new valve. It's very simple if the pressure is always high at the adapter. Heck, I don't know. When you get the thing working maybe you can find time to sketch up a flow diagram so even I can understand. Thanks for your patience.

This adapter is ahead of the three point. I think that is where you are getting hung up. It enters the trans case (at the cap on the side). So with the new adapter. It flows out of the pump to the trans case. From there it is diverted to the loader valve, from the out of the loader valve to the backside of the Hyd adapter, into the trans case for the three point. Here are pics of the cap and the other side of the line...

So fluid comes from the pump to the right hole on the line. Now with no adapter it enters the concave cap to reach the hole on the left completing the pressure circuit to the three point.

So with the adapter, it flows from the pump to the right hole... Through the one port of the adapter to the loader valve. Out of the loader valve to the "return" of the Hyd block adapter then into the case for the three point completing the circuit. You aren't changing the flow, or operation of it. All you are doing is diverting the flow to an aux valve first..

Is it any clearer yet?

 

[modifyit]

Maybe I see the light now. Having never removed the pressure line, I thought the hole on the right lined up with a hole in the transmission case and fluid flowed directly into the valve assy. Now I see, the hole on the right must bolt up to a flat surface on the transmission. Then the existing cap with the concave hole just acts as a connection to the hole on the left and that's where the valve gets it's pressure from. Seems those Jap guys designed it that way so they could sell that extra cap to run other implements. Simple but effective. All the pressure drop I was worried about happens inside the valve assy in the transmission. This simply diverts flow to other valves etc before getting to the three point.

Thanks for your patience, now, I believe I can salvage my original design cap.

 

[Freakingstang]

Maybe I see the light now. Having never removed the pressure line, I thought the hole on the right lined up with a hole in the transmission case and fluid flowed directly into the valve assy. Now I see, the hole on the right must bolt up to a flat surface on the transmission. Then the existing cap with the concave hole just acts as a connection to the hole on the left and that's where the valve gets it's pressure from. Seems those Jap guys designed it that way so they could sell that extra cap to run other implements. Simple but effective. All the pressure drop I was worried about happens inside the valve assy in the transmission. This simply diverts flow to other valves etc before getting to the three point.

Thanks for your patience, now, I believe I can salvage my original design cap.

I don't understand how you were trying to make one without ever removing the cap.... 2 minutes could have saved you alot of time...

 

[modifyit]

I knew I wasn't ready to remove the hydraulic plumbing at the time and found a chunk of metal, so figured to whittle it down a bit so it would be close when the time came. Now that I know how the whole deal works, I should be able to finish it up fairly quickly when the time comes.
I have most of the steel work done for the loader and soon will be looking into a shop that can break some sheet metal into the shape of the bucket I'm going to need. Just one piece at a time.

 

[techwrtr2]

I wonder how hard it would be to translate this part into CNC language.

 

[modifyit]

This is a fairly simple part. CNC technology could knock these things our very quickly. It's amazing enough to see what can be done with complicated parts, this would be a piece of cake. I wonder what one of these things would cost off the shelf from Mitsubishi or whatever outfit makes these?

 

[Freakingstang]

got it done today at lunch.

I started with this junk cylinder....

I cut the end off...

I utilized the eisiting 5mm hole, but enlaged it slightly... I used a porta band to cut it to shape. Took a bunch of measurements...

All the work was done by me with a porta band saw, a cheapo drill press and a little patience. I ground down a drill bit flat, and gave it just enough angle (2-3 degrees) to cut, but not leave a taper like a conventional drill would for the o-ring seats.

This would have been a 20 minute project is I had a mill... I had to get creative holding it down after I already cut it to shape...

so.... here is the flow. all we did was add a loop coming from the pump to the three point.

 

[techwrtr2]

Now does it work?

 

[Kernopelli]

This is the one I was sent. They assured me numerous times that it would work but the bolt hole pattern is about twice the diameter. Any idea what tractor this one fits?

That is the same adapter that fits the Mitsubishi made Case IH 244/5 and 254/5 tractors, I have attached a diagram from Messicks CIH parts website for a IH 254 adapter.......identical to yours. The 254/255 is VERY similar to my MTE2000D. The 244/245 would probably cross over to the MT180(X) tractors for this part. I will bet there are other Mitsubishi models it fits as well but that's speculation.

Are you sure it won't work on your Beaver? I would think as long as the hydraulic ports line up the bolt hole size doesn't matter too much, just so it torques down enough to seat the orings. I cut my pressure line to plumb in my hydraulics but the adapters are much cleaner. Interested in selling yours if it doesn't fit the Beaver?

Opps, just noticed the full diagram didn't attach.....oh well, you get the idea. You can see the diagram at Messicks 254 INTERNATIONAL DIESEL TRACTOR under "Hydraulics"

 

[Freakingstang]

Now does it work?

I wanted to get it fired up tonight. I got all the hydraulics plumbed and got called out on a service call. I don't have long enough bolts to install it. So it will have to wait til tomorrow to fire up the loader for the first time.



And kernopelli, the one I bought isn't even close. None of the Hyd ports match up. There is three holes on the one they sent me and muons only has two. Even if the ports would line up, there is no way to attach it to the tractor. The ports on the wrong one are outside of the bolt pattern on mine... I would have made it work if it were possible..... There were supposed to issue a return call tag for it. I have about 200 bucks in it. If I have to pat to ship it back because of their mistake, I'll gladly sell it.

 

[lilbever]

got it done today at lunch.

I started with this junk cylinder....

I cut the end off...

I utilized the eisiting 5mm hole, but enlaged it slightly... I used a porta band to cut it to shape. Took a bunch of measurements...

All the work was done by me with a porta band saw, a cheapo drill press and a little patience. I ground down a drill bit flat, and gave it just enough angle (2-3 degrees) to cut, but not leave a taper like a conventional drill would for the o-ring seats.

This would have been a 20 minute project is I had a mill... I had to get creative holding it down after I already cut it to shape...

so.... here is the flow. all we did was add a loop coming from the pump to the three point.

i am assuming that the pressure in port is coming from the PB port on your valve. Where are you going to hook up the low pressure line to the tank. I have a s373 that i am trying to re-plumb because the original owner did not have a valve with PB so i am going to put the correct valve on but don't know where to attach the third line from the valve.

 

[Kernopelli]

And kernopelli, the one I bought isn't even close. None of the Hyd ports match up. There is three holes on the one they sent me and muons only has two. Even if the ports would line up, there is no way to attach it to the tractor. The ports on the wrong one are outside of the bolt pattern on mine... I would have made it work if it were possible..... There were supposed to issue a return call tag for it. I have about 200 bucks in it. If I have to pat to ship it back because of their mistake, I'll gladly sell it.

$200...ouch! That's $50 more than the current new OEM part price Messicks gets for the part WKTP sent you. I hate to hear about your issues with West KY tractor Parts. I have had great interactions with them and recommended them many times. Even had a coworker make the trip down there last week and pick up some parts for his MT300. Personally, I WOULD pester them for a refund...that is clearly the wrong part from what you described. I knew immediately what it was and would fit as soon as I saw the pic, just wasn't sure exactly what models it is not compatable with.

Great project and work, been following the whole FEL build. Keep it coming!

 

[duwem]

Valley Power makes these aftermaket out of billet aluminum.

Not cheap, but available.

 

[Freakingstang]

Valley Power makes these aftermaket out of billet aluminum.

Not cheap, but available.

I know.... I thought 200 bucks for a used part was steep.

For 500 bucks that Valley charges, I was out nothing trying to make my own.... I had one failure because the NPT thread once tightened down made it leak under pressure....I was off a couple thousandths. I made another one in about an hours work. No sophisticated tools just a little ingenuity and determination.

And it works.... I'm looking at having some made to see what the price would be. I'm pretty confident I can make a little cash on them and still make them affordable to anyone that wants to put hydraulics on their 30+ year old tractor.

 

[Volvoman]

Did you ever investigate having some more of these made? I am needing one for my S373d to control a newly acquired front blade with up/down and left/right positioning. If not, would a pattern be available so they could be made on a homeshop lathe and mill? Vvm.

I know.... I thought 200 bucks for a used part was steep.

For 500 bucks that Valley charges, I was out nothing trying to make my own.... I had one failure because the NPT thread once tightened down made it leak under pressure....I was off a couple thousandths. I made another one in about an hours work. No sophisticated tools just a little ingenuity and determination.

And it works.... I'm looking at having some made to see what the price would be. I'm pretty confident I can make a little cash on them and still make them affordable to anyone that wants to put hydraulics on their 30+ year old tractor.

 

[duwem]

I was under the impression that Valley Power makes them out of a new billet hunk for $178 or something. Not a used part. Call them.

My most recent purchase has the trianglular block and had an add on control valve mounted on the fender with remotes on the back. Hose was cracked so I took that all off and just put hose to loop back into the adaptor.