Did a little hay last week ...

[Bob Ha]

Be picky on the Bull. We've had one that shot blanks before.

Starting today we are baling 50 acres. Coastal is comming on strong this year.

 

[MikeA57]

Out of curiosity, (could be a dumb question for all I know, but that never stopped me) I noticed that your square bales are all up on pallets off the ground but the round ones aren't. Why is that? Too heavy? (doubtful) Just not enough pallets or is there another reason they don't need to be?

Oh, and great pictures btw. We drove up through southern IL last weekend and we got off the interstate and took the back roads through the farm country and hay cutting/baling was in full swing. Actually it was wheat straw for the most part. Anyway, my sinuses let loose worse than I've ever had them do. I could not keep a handkerchief or kleenex away from my face for 2 days. I didn't realize what had caused that but I got up Sunday and I was OK. Not great just OK. But THEN, we went back the same route and it didn't take but an hour or so for me to realize that the problem was all that straw dust in the air. I've been allergic to it all my life but haven't been around it in so long I had forgotten. It turned into a full fledged infection and I'm now on a Z-Pack of antibiotics. I hate that so much because I love being out in the country and on farms.

 

[foreman Etexas]

Be picky on the Bull. We've had one that shot blanks before.

Starting today we are baling 50 acres. Coastal is comming on strong this year.

All Bulls been tested and have all info.on them... We need pictures Bob!!!

 

[blueriver]

Out of curiosity, (could be a dumb question for all I know, but that never stopped me) I noticed that your square bales are all up on pallets off the ground but the round ones aren't. Why is that? Too heavy? (doubtful) Just not enough pallets or is there another reason they don't need to be?

I have plenty of pallets ... buyers for square bales are buyers from heII ... buyers for rounds don't care so I just set them on the ground.

 

[foreman Etexas]

Alright got everything done and the mower going,now the question is what rpm should I be running?
The cutter is a pain to get off and on the tractor,I may have said a few curse words getting it off....

 

[Learning to Farm]

Out of curiosity, (could be a dumb question for all I know, but that never stopped me) I noticed that your square bales are all up on pallets off the ground but the round ones aren't. Why is that? Too heavy? (doubtful) Just not enough pallets or is there another reason they don't need to be?

Not to disagree with Blueriver, however, "normally" square bale buyers are horse owners. We also buy round bales, our round bales also sit on the dirt when being fed. It is a cost issue for us. Square bales cost more to make (more labor intensive), however to feed hay to a horse in a stall they are really the only way to go. To have moisture get into and "ruin" the bottom row of bales is silly when placing them on cheap pallets prevents it. Now you're scratching your head maybe and saying why would it ruin the bales. Horses and cattle are digestively different as the layering of hay in square and round bales. Horses digest like we do, short break down then long absorption. Cattle, sheep, llamas, heck camels do it backwards, long breakdown to short nutrient absorption. So, this is important because the molds, mushrooms and bugs that like to live in the moist part of the bale are less likely to affect the foregut fermenters (cattle, etc). Also, let's return to the money for a minute. The amount of moisture and waste, square bales are "built" with layers like this IIIIIII and they are stacked like that, I have seen were, on dirt, they are stacked one sort side so that only one flake/pad/pat was lost to moisture (as you can imagine it was with hay that was well made and the bales were very similar lengths) but when stacked normally all those I's get one end ruined and it is to time consuming to try to figure out how much to take off/ if it's worth feeding. Now round bales are layers so like ply wood, the moisture seeps side to side not up into the bale, for the most part.

Hope that is a better explanation.

Now for a side note. We get our hay by an enclosed tractor trailer, we don't use pallets in those only when it is moved into the barn, even then we only store two pallets worth. We have 6x6s under the rounds (we get some really nice rounds).

I don't defend stupid horse people, most don't know why we do it and will feed horses dusty, dry moldy, non-leaf/all seed head/steamy crap hay because it is green or because they don't ask which cutting or storage age. Folks and farmers like Blueriver that sell a high quality product, and should get top dollar. But "most" horse owners are not farmers and they think all hay is the same and should cost the same, trust me I have heard it actually said. I used to work with a farmer and would go out with him right before he cut "my batch".

 

[Learning to Farm]

Addition to ^

I would also, help in the fields in exchange for a few "free" bales. It is some of the hardest, hottest work I think I have ever done. Those bales are worth every penny.

Also, most horse owners don't know the difference in grasses or the benefits of adding legumes.

 

[pacerron]

Not to disagree with Blueriver, however, "normally" square bale buyers are horse owners. We also buy round bales, our round bales also sit on the dirt when being fed. It is a cost issue for us. Square bales cost more to make (more labor intensive), however to feed hay to a horse in a stall they are really the only way to go. To have moisture get into and "ruin" the bottom row of bales is silly when placing them on cheap pallets prevents it. Now you're scratching your head maybe and saying why would it ruin the bales. Horses and cattle are digestively different as the layering of hay in square and round bales. Horses digest like we do, short break down then long absorption. Cattle, sheep, llamas, heck camels do it backwards, long breakdown to short nutrient absorption. So, this is important because the molds, mushrooms and bugs that like to live in the moist part of the bale are less likely to affect the foregut fermenters (cattle, etc). Also, let's return to the money for a minute. The amount of moisture and waste, square bales are "built" with layers like this IIIIIII and they are stacked like that, I have seen were, on dirt, they are stacked one sort side so that only one flake/pad/pat was lost to moisture (as you can imagine it was with hay that was well made and the bales were very similar lengths) but when stacked normally all those I's get one end ruined and it is to time consuming to try to figure out how much to take off/ if it's worth feeding. Now round bales are layers so like ply wood, the moisture seeps side to side not up into the bale, for the most part.

Hope that is a better explanation.

Now for a side note. We get our hay by an enclosed tractor trailer, we don't use pallets in those only when it is moved into the barn, even then we only store two pallets worth. We have 6x6s under the rounds (we get some really nice rounds).

I don't defend stupid horse people, most don't know why we do it and will feed horses dusty, dry moldy, non-leaf/all seed head/steamy crap hay because it is green or because they don't ask which cutting or storage age. Folks and farmers like Blueriver that sell a high quality product, and should get top dollar. But "most" horse owners are not farmers and they think all hay is the same and should cost the same, trust me I have heard it actually said. I used to work with a farmer and would go out with him right before he cut "my batch".

It sounds like you have the equipment to handle round bales and it sounds like you are free range feeding your horses round bales sitting on end in the mud but feeding them square bales when stalled. Or are you mixing two different stories?
If you have room to store good, round, never wet, rolls in your barn and place one or more on end on pallets in an isle next to the stalls ( no more space required than your two pallets of square bales) you can unwind the string from it and pull off your feeding portions for the stalled horses with a pitch fork and save money over using square bales, which you say is an issue with you. Feeding the horses inside gives you control of how much hay they are receiving rather than having their pecking order control how much wet muddy tromped in hay they are getting from your outside rolls standing on end in the mud. Hopefully your stalled horses have access to an outside area
most or all of the time as well, or you will find them chewing on the barn from boredom. Hopefully money for hay is not such an issue that your horses are not getting shots, dewormers, and proper hoof care. Some folks think the only cost of owning horses is from some hay and a little supplemental grain mix. There's a whole lot more cost to it than that.
Your best solution in regards to the horses well being is to find a supplier that you can trust and buy the same type hay from him every time with an agreement that you will continue as long as the hay remains good quality. (Good quality doesn't necessarily mean it is bright green). Buying hay from here, there, and everywhere based on price is not good. As you said horses have a much different digestive system than other animals.
Correct feeding is an age old argument and will continue to be as long as people have horses. A lot depends on climate, amount of work, breed, and the individual horse. If you overfeed an "easy keeper" or under feed one that is not, you will see the results in a few months. If you are talking about pleasure horses, which it sounds like you are, spring and summer grass consumption is a big part of the equation. If you have ever had to walk a horse for hours on end to keep it on its feet because it has a stomach ache from too much spring green grass you will learn proper feeding in a hurry.
Enjoy your horses..as we do ours.

 

[Learning to Farm]

Hey Ron,

Love having another " horse" consumer chime in. Sorry for some confusion with the earlier post (mixing the "us's" and "we's", for horse people in general and the farm. I was typing from a phone and see when reading that the post was not clear in some spots.

I do not manage the farm unfortunately; however I do manage the two fields that my horse and his 6 buddies rotate in. Read about my field renovations: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/217508-my-learning-farm-newbie-renovating.html. My two fields do not need hay in them most of the year due to fact that I properly manage them. However the other fields receive hay (round bales) at all times.

I started reading this thread in the beginning because we have an unfenced area that I am hoping to have some custom haying done and it has been quite enlightening.

It sounds like you have the equipment to handle round bales and it sounds like you are free range feeding your horses round bales sitting on end in the mud but feeding them square bales when stalled. Or are you mixing two different stories?/QUOTE]

Yes, that is correct. We have both.

If you have room to store good, round, never wet, rolls in your barn and place one or more on end on pallets in an isle next to the stalls (no more space required than your two pallets of square bales) you can unwind the string from it and pull off your feeding portions for the stalled horses with a pitch fork and save money over using square bales, which you say is an issue with you.

I have worked at barns where this was the practice and one that I totally agree with. I actually thought to mention it in the original post. The money is not an issue for me (I am not burning it for fun, but I am not cheap either) and I am sorry if I came across that way. When I mentioned it I was trying to explain that a round bales are more cost effective if and need less gentle storage than the squares which by design are more delicate. Also, that losing all the hay bales on the bottom of a square stack more expensive then letting a round bale sit on dirt.

Feeding the horses inside gives you control of how much hay they are receiving rather than having their pecking order control how much wet muddy tromped in hay they are getting from your outside rolls standing on end in the mud.

Yes, I totally agree. My guys field has no bale to fight over they are constantly grazing and the number of wound (bites, kicks, etc) are significantly less. Also, I have taken (and continue to) take efforts to reduce muddy spots in the fields (by adding proper drainage around the water troughs and removing wasted hay). On an additional note, removing old hay cuts down on the flies.

Hopefully your stalled horses have access to an outside area
most or all of the time as well, or you will find them chewing on the barn from boredom.

I hate vices therefore I strive to have my horse out as much as possible, when the weather is nice I do have him brought in to be fed his balancer (6 oz a day), looked over and then turned out for 24 hrs. All other times, he is out 12 to 14 hours a day. Also, referencing back to your last point on field feeding, I want him to have alone time to eat and digest without worrying about other horses.

Hopefully money for hay is not such an issue that your horses are not getting shots, dewormers, and proper hoof care. Some folks think the only cost of owning horses is from some hay and a little supplemental grain mix. There's a whole lot more cost to it than that.

Haha, once again it is not and you have just listed the basics. Dental care is the one that I see that is neglected after those, I don't know how many times that has been the root cause of weight loss, attitude, food dropping, hay cudding. I do recommend looking into fecal counts versus the 6 wormer rotation. You still have to deworm for tapeworm twice a year, but the pesticide resistance to dewormers is less when this method is used.

Your best solution in regards to the horses well being is to find a supplier that you can trust and buy the same type hay from him every time with an agreement that you will continue as long as the hay remains good quality. (Good quality doesn't necessarily mean it is bright green). Buying hay from here, there, and everywhere based on price is not good. As you said horses have a much different digestive system than other animals.

I miss Ol' Steve, the farmer that I worked with. I wish I could help with the hay selection for this farm. The rounds right now are nice, but the squares are so-so, reason I am looking at the custom haying this field.

Correct feeding is an age old argument and will continue to be as long as people have horses. A lot depends on climate, amount of work, breed, and the individual horse. If you overfeed an "easy keeper" or under feed one that is not, you will see the results in a few months. If you are talking about pleasure horses, which it sounds like you are, spring and summer grass consumption is a big part of the equation. If you have ever had to walk a horse for hours on end to keep it on its feet because it has a stomach ache from too much spring green grass you will learn proper feeding in a hurry.
Enjoy your horses..as we do ours.

After a year of animal nutrition for my degree, one semester of equine and one semester of everything else... Did you ever wonder what your digestive system would look like if you only ate fish (or krill) and how I know that camels and cows are similar, haha? Feeding is not easy and overfeeding grain and underfeeding forage is the biggest problem across the horse industry. That is why I love hay and grass talk. I have a Oldenburg Cross novice level eventer that is ridden 5-6 days a week and is only on a small amount of balancer (6 oz a day) and a fly supplement. I would reduce it more but the balancer allows me to feed him his antihistamine tablets easily. After having colic surgery on my first horse, which the hospital said was directly related to lack of available forage, I have a vested interest in making sure that he has grass in the fields and as much hay as he will eat.

I really do enjoy my critter, I attached a picture of the hay burner.

Sorry for high-jacking the thread Blueriver, back to your wonderful haying operation and more knowledge you have for us.

 

[blueriver]

Not to disagree with Blueriver, however, "normally" square bale buyers are horse owners. We also buy round bales, our round bales also sit on the dirt when being fed. It is a cost issue for us. Square bales cost more to make (more labor intensive), however to feed hay to a horse in a stall they are really the only way to go. To have moisture get into and "ruin" the bottom row of bales is silly when placing them on cheap pallets prevents it. Now you're scratching your head maybe and saying why would it ruin the bales. Horses and cattle are digestively different as the layering of hay in square and round bales. Horses digest like we do, short break down then long absorption. Cattle, sheep, llamas, heck camels do it backwards, long breakdown to short nutrient absorption. So, this is important because the molds, mushrooms and bugs that like to live in the moist part of the bale are less likely to affect the foregut fermenters (cattle, etc). Also, let's return to the money for a minute. The amount of moisture and waste, square bales are "built" with layers like this IIIIIII and they are stacked like that, I have seen were, on dirt, they are stacked one sort side so that only one flake/pad/pat was lost to moisture (as you can imagine it was with hay that was well made and the bales were very similar lengths) but when stacked normally all those I's get one end ruined and it is to time consuming to try to figure out how much to take off/ if it's worth feeding. Now round bales are layers so like ply wood, the moisture seeps side to side not up into the bale, for the most part.

Hope that is a better explanation.

Now for a side note. We get our hay by an enclosed tractor trailer, we don't use pallets in those only when it is moved into the barn, even then we only store two pallets worth. We have 6x6s under the rounds (we get some really nice rounds).

I don't defend stupid horse people, most don't know why we do it and will feed horses dusty, dry moldy, non-leaf/all seed head/steamy crap hay because it is green or because they don't ask which cutting or storage age. Folks and farmers like Blueriver that sell a high quality product, and should get top dollar. But "most" horse owners are not farmers and they think all hay is the same and should cost the same, trust me I have heard it actually said. I used to work with a farmer and would go out with him right before he cut "my batch".

You are not disagreeing ... I just didn't ID the horse people ... if they see a square bale touching dirt ... well its a crime. Now on the other hand I think they would buy a round bale sitting in 6" of water right before you load it!!

And ... I'm currently getting $8 a square bale so I go the extra with the pallets.