fill tires or not?

[joshuabardwell]

This thread has got me thinking. For all the benefits that CaCl or RimGuard may have, at the end of the day, plain old water weighs 8 lbs / gal (roughly) and, since I'm on well water, is more or less free. I'd like to load my tires, but I don't have the budget to pay $300 or so for RimGuard, which is what I'd really like. It got me to thinking: isn't something better than nothing? Why not get the drill pump and the adapter for the valve and fill them up with plain old H2O. Living in East TN, it doesn't freeze here very often, and if it comes to that, I'll just pump the water back out again.

What am I missing in my brilliant plan?

 

[FunnelWeb]

Why not get the drill pump and the adapter for the valve and fill them up with plain old H2O. Living in East TN, it doesn't freeze here very often, and if it comes to that, I'll just pump the water back out again.

What am I missing in my brilliant plan?

I'm not sure how water would go in tubeless tyres but with tubes that's exactly what you can do. Here in Australia we generally don't have to worry about freezing either.

As a kid I watched my dad fill tubed tractor tyres with water on numerous occasions. You don't even need the fancy valve adapter gizmo. Dad just used a garden hose. It's a bit more mucking around than with the adapter, but you can do it. Personally though, I'd buy the adapter.

 

[sunnyside360]

This thread has got me thinking. For all the benefits that CaCl or RimGuard may have, at the end of the day, plain old water weighs 8 lbs / gal (roughly) and, since I'm on well water, is more or less free. I'd like to load my tires, but I don't have the budget to pay $300 or so for RimGuard, which is what I'd really like. It got me to thinking: isn't something better than nothing? Why not get the drill pump and the adapter for the valve and fill them up with plain old H2O. Living in East TN, it doesn't freeze here very often, and if it comes to that, I'll just pump the water back out again.

What am I missing in my brilliant plan?

You are not missing anything. Liquid ballast in tires has been discussed numerous times here on TBN and it seems using plain old H2O in the southern most states is not that uncommon. You might consider just throwing in a gallon or two of RV antifreeze with the H2O if you rarely have cold temps much below freezing and then don't worry about it again.

 

[Johnb212]

I think I did'nt make my position on to "fill or not to fill". I would fill the tires on my compact tractor with or without a FEL. I have two small Allis Chalmer tractors, a Walker Zero Turn and a Honda 1338., The Allis Chalmers B212 and HB212 are nearly identical except the B212 has a manual transmission with VariDrive and FEL, the HB212 is a hydro mower only. I can tell the diffrence with and without filled tires, I am in the process of filling all my little machine's tires with windshield fluid.
The link to my roll over accident is Allis Chalmers Garden Tractor Rollover - YouTube OR you can go to "Allis Chalmers Garden Tractor Rollover".
By viewing it I hope it saves someone from getting hurt.
John

 

[msmud]

I think it important to keep an open mind on this question of whether to fill or not fill the tires. It may well be right for some or most folks on the site to do it, but a lot of people come here to try to learn something, and indeed I learned a good deal pursuing the question about why my dealer didn't recommend it. For instance, there clearly are more reasons why it's not optimal to use liquid ballast than just prevention of tire hop, an admittedly unusual problem for small tractor operators. The Clemson University link I provided earlier gives 8 reasons on page two of its summary, among them being reduced traction, increased risk for tire damage and powertrain damage, reduced flotation, decreased comfort etc. It's worth reading this over. A Missouri ag extension office pub makes the point that filling the tires surrenders one of the means we have over control of the machine, because the air pressure over the liquid is not the pressure at the bottom of the tire. A Canadian link I found reinforces John Deere's own manual recommendations not to carry more ballast than what you currently require, that the fluid approach leads to a semi-permanent ballast that can't easily change to accommodate new loads or attachments. And finally, the Titan tire link that Sunnyside provided contains the Goodyear worksheets I used for how to balance your tractor (with or without liquid weights) so as to improve its performance and safety. Liquid ballast is not the only or necessarily the best means of preventing rollover.

Now does this mean that one shouldn't do liquid ballast? You have to make that decision for yourself. Some of the folks on this website have such funds of experience and common sense that they don't need to consult these or perhaps any publications, nor consider another point of view. The rest of us may learn something, however; I know I did.

 

[joshuabardwell]

The link to my roll over accident is Allis Chalmers Garden Tractor Rollover - YouTube OR you can go to "Allis Chalmers Garden Tractor Rollover".
By viewing it I hope it saves someone from getting hurt.
John

I appreciate you sharing this incident, even though it might be a bit embarrassing for you personally. Even with the tires filled, I'm not sure I would attempt the maneuver that rolled you. Going downhill that fast, with the loader raised, and then swinging the front end around like that seems like a really risky move under any circumstances. Probably the safest thing to do would be to lower the loader before beginning to move, then back straight down the hill and turn around once on the flat. But you figured that out the hard way. :shocked: Glad nobody got hurt.

 

[Johnb212]

As I share with you the events leading to the roll over you will have a better understanding of how I found myself in such a dangerous situation so quickly.
I wanted to move a large pile of pine branches. I foolishly decided to use the tractor and the forks I made to fit on the loader bucket even though it had a problem. I have been struggling to get the brake / clutch adjustment correct after the rebuilding of the B212.
I could get the brakes to work but couldn't shift gears in the transmission or I could get the transmission to shift ok but the brakes wouldn't work. I had it as good as I could get it and went to work. The forks I made were too long and when the bucket was in full dump position and raised to maximum height, the forks still touched the ground. So as I came to the top of the grade and dropped the bucket with the forks loaded with branches the tips of the forks began to dig into the ground. I stepped of the clutch / brake pedal and the tractor continued to creep forward. Not wanting to damage the forks or tractor I shifted the transmission into neutral. With the forks spring loaded the tractor lunged backward and off we went. I had a choice to go to the right where there is a stone wall with a drop off, continue going backward down the hill all the while gaining speed and crashing into a camper at the bottom of the hill, if I could keep it going straight or, go to the left towards another bank. As you could see I chose the bank. My wife was videoing the event because it was the first task with the tractor since the rebuild and it was supposed to be a fun event, NOT. Well when the dust settled, the tractor (Allice) was completely undamaged, (or so I thought until this evening). As you can see I have wheel weight, you can't tell but the tires are filled to the brim with windshild washer fluid so I have weighted it well without going to a rear weight. I have replaced the front axle with an IH Cub cast iron axle but I have put stops on it to prevent it from articulating any more than the orginal AC axle. The tires are 23X10.5X12. I still don't want to add dual wheels out of concern of braking an axle. .
I believe the loader bucket being raised contributed to the roll over, it also prevented a 360 deg. roll with unthinkable results. I have had many years of experiance with opreating all types of equipment but a poor decision because I wanted to play I might not have been able to write this post.
John

 

[Mistyridgefarm]

All the extension info says to not fill the tires? Hmmmm, they have been so great in the past with ideas. Plant fescue they say. Then ten years later they say fescue is bad. New flavor of the month is native warm season grasses. My extension agent says don't do hay. Just stockpile pasture areas for over wintering. Okay, so if I'm only a few weeks late getting the hay crop, I'm losing soooo much forage quality, how good can it be sitting dead for months? Frankly, I would temper whatever you read from them as the story changes too frequently.

That said, for most agricultural row crop operations, proper ballasting is to increase traction to reduce wheel slippage to minimum. This is the most fuel efficient way. Depending on your soils, compaction can be an issue which increases costs for breaking up compaction which causes yield reductions. All noble considerations when you are cropping thousands of acres and these differences can make a change in yield of 10 bushels per acre of corn, or reduce fuel usage by 2 gallons per acre worked per field operation.

For the rest of the world of tractor use, we use ballast to lower the center of gravity, offset large front loads, for uses on land that you wouldn't be row cropping. For THAT purpose, filling tires with fluid is a time proven method. Does it make your ride suffer? At high speeds maybe. Does it add to compaction of the ground? Sometimes but depends on soil, time of year, etc.

The flip side - The ballast in my tires allows me to negotiate rough terrain to utilize my tractor in a safe manner. Compaction in my usage doesn't matter. Wheel slippage is only a concern if it is 100%. Ride quality impact in the woods pulling out logs at 3 mph means nothing. About the only operation I might notice it on is running the wheel rake.

Sorry guys, but I have met few extension folks or ag tire mfrs that put as many hours in the tractor seat as I do and I'm only a part time hobbyist farmer. I would rather take the advise of people like here on TBN who are out there regularly using their equipment than most of these off farm experts. Getting off my stump now..

 

[shortthrow50]

i would never consider filling tires. As it stands now, i can jack my machine up and remove a tire to get to areas under the cab and lift the tire back on to the hub to reinstall. Its heavy as **** now with the tire not loaded. How the heck would one do that with a loaded tire? Plus, I have always gotten flats on tractors I dont need the headache with having to deal with fluids in the tires to replace as well. proper ballast should be sufficient. this is personal opinion of mine and respect your guys way of handling things

 

[sunnyside360]

All the extension info says to not fill the tires? Hmmmm, they have been so great in the past with ideas. Plant fescue they say. Then ten years later they say fescue is bad. New flavor of the month is native warm season grasses. My extension agent says don't do hay. Just stockpile pasture areas for over wintering. Okay, so if I'm only a few weeks late getting the hay crop, I'm losing soooo much forage quality, how good can it be sitting dead for months? Frankly, I would temper whatever you read from them as the story changes too frequently.

That said, for most agricultural row crop operations, proper ballasting is to increase traction to reduce wheel slippage to minimum. This is the most fuel efficient way. Depending on your soils, compaction can be an issue which increases costs for breaking up compaction which causes yield reductions. All noble considerations when you are cropping thousands of acres and these differences can make a change in yield of 10 bushels per acre of corn, or reduce fuel usage by 2 gallons per acre worked per field operation.

For the rest of the world of tractor use, we use ballast to lower the center of gravity, offset large front loads, for uses on land that you wouldn't be row cropping. For THAT purpose, filling tires with fluid is a time proven method. Does it make your ride suffer? At high speeds maybe. Does it add to compaction of the ground? Sometimes but depends on soil, time of year, etc.

The flip side - The ballast in my tires allows me to negotiate rough terrain to utilize my tractor in a safe manner. Compaction in my usage doesn't matter. Wheel slippage is only a concern if it is 100%. Ride quality impact in the woods pulling out logs at 3 mph means nothing. About the only operation I might notice it on is running the wheel rake.

Sorry guys, but I have met few extension folks or ag tire mfrs that put as many hours in the tractor seat as I do and I'm only a part time hobbyist farmer. I would rather take the advise of people like here on TBN who are out there regularly using their equipment than most of these off farm experts. Getting off my stump now..

Misty,

Very eloquently stated summary and reflects my thoughts exactly. IMHO, you get the prize. Bottom line is there are many factors to consider and everyone has to decide what is best for their use.

BTW, I'd never think of using my 3720 cab tractor w/o tire ballast and wheel extensions on the steep terrain where it is used.