Environmentalists won't quit until we are walking and have no vehicles

[Mikeeemo]

All this talk of the "nanny state" has hit a nerve with me. This isn't a right vs left thing. This is a freedom vs tyranny thing. This country was founded on a firm set of principles and beliefs, and the most important is the rule of law. Which means that no man is above the law. And that we are a country of laws and not of men. Men can change their minds, but our rights are given to us by God and can't be changed. The laws put in place back then were to limit the size and scope of government and not it's citizens. Our founding fathers said that our rights were given to us by God and not from the government. And being that they are given to us by God, they can not be altered or taken away. Understood was the fact that the rights I enjoy have no impact on your rights. For example your right to free speech doesn't cost me anything. That's why healthcare or a living wage for that matter, can never, ever, be a right.

People like John seem to believe that we must be subservient to the government and not the other way around. His distrust of free people and the free market is evident. People like this believe that businesses can't be trusted and that there is a government solution for everything. Call it what you want, the nanny state or liberalism or socialism, but note that the later two are siblings in the family of collectivism, along with communism and fascism.

Socialism, which seems to be what John and what our president believes in, is very flawed. At the very heart of this vision is the notion that a compassionate society care create more human living conditions for all through government planning and control. This is the nanny state at it's very best.

But the root of the problem is that the rule of law, on which our freedom itself utilmately depends, is incompatible with socialism. People who are free to do as they wish will not do as the government planners wish. Differences in values and priorities are enough to ensure that.

But in order for socialism to work, those differences must be ironed out by propaganda or force. And indoctrination must be part of the program, not because socialists want to be brains-washers, but because socialism requires brainwashing.

Taken to it's extreme, during the 20th century, the collectivist governments of Stalin, ******, Mao and others killed over 200 million human beings. For me, I'll take freedom any day. I understand that we do need a government, but it must be held to the tenants of what is allowed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

One of my favorite quotes of Thomas Jefferson is - "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

What we have today is tyranny.

Live free or die!

AMEN !

 

[VitaBene]

Hey, if it's going to kill me and/or my family, new regs preventing it is a good thing, or do you prefer a pine box? I don't think anybody's saying you have to walk or can't have a tractor. Isn't this just the implementation of tier 4 final anyway? The clean diesels from VW apparently emit less than a Prius and if you've ever driven one you'd be impressed, especially if you'd driven one from the early '90's or earlier. I'd love an engine like that in my tractor.

I just picked up a 2012 Jetta TDI with 6 speed manual. It is around 140 HP with 250 is TQ... lots of fun, clean and great mileage. Of course my 99 F250 7.3 PU with 6 speed is stayin', smoke and all!

 

[Pixguy]

All this talk of the "nanny state" has hit a nerve with me. This isn't a right vs left thing. This is a freedom vs tyranny thing. This country was founded on a firm set of principles and beliefs, and the most important is the rule of law. Which means that no man is above the law. And that we are a country of laws and not of men. Men can change their minds, but our rights are given to us by God and can't be changed. The laws put in place back then were to limit the size and scope of government and not it's citizens. Our founding fathers said that our rights were given to us by God and not from the government. And being that they are given to us by God, they can not be altered or taken away. Understood was the fact that the rights I enjoy have no impact on your rights. For example your right to free speech doesn't cost me anything. That's why healthcare or a living wage for that matter, can never, ever, be a right.

People like John seem to believe that we must be subservient to the government and not the other way around. His distrust of free people and the free market is evident. People like this believe that businesses can't be trusted and that there is a government solution for everything. Call it what you want, the nanny state or liberalism or socialism, but note that the later two are siblings in the family of collectivism, along with communism and fascism.

Socialism, which seems to be what John and what our president believes in, is very flawed. At the very heart of this vision is the notion that a compassionate society care create more human living conditions for all through government planning and control. This is the nanny state at it's very best.

But the root of the problem is that the rule of law, on which our freedom itself utilmately depends, is incompatible with socialism. People who are free to do as they wish will not do as the government planners wish. Differences in values and priorities are enough to ensure that.

But in order for socialism to work, those differences must be ironed out by propaganda or force. And indoctrination must be part of the program, not because socialists want to be brains-washers, but because socialism requires brainwashing.

Taken to it's extreme, during the 20th century, the collectivist governments of Stalin, ******, Mao and others killed over 200 million human beings. For me, I'll take freedom any day. I understand that we do need a government, but it must be held to the tenants of what is allowed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

One of my favorite quotes of Thomas Jefferson is - "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

What we have today is tyranny.

Live free or die!

Great post! :thumbsup:
Live Free or Die.... another reason I moved to NH, our motto.

Last thing I'm gonna do is listen to someone who lives out of the country tell me what I believe and who I should listen to or read. STFU

 

[US American]

^^^ Add another Amen.

 

[Domush]

Last thing I'm gonna do is listen to someone who lives out of the country tell me what I believe and who I should listen to or read. STFU

I'll listen to anyone who has a decent idea no matter where they live, what color their skin is, who they have sex with or what their disposition is.

A closed mind is a terrible waste.

 

[shortthrow50]

I'll listen to anyone who has a decent idea no matter where they live, what color their skin is, who they have sex with or what their disposition is.

e.

That's good to know

 

[Lava Rancher]

I'll listen to anyone who has a decent idea no matter where they live, what color their skin is, who they have sex with or what their disposition is.

A closed mind is a terrible waste.

:thumbsup:

 

[RoyJackson]

I'll listen to anyone who has a decent idea no matter where they live, what color their skin is, who they have sex with or what their disposition is.

A closed mind is a terrible waste.

Good!! Jerry Sandusky is looking for a pen pal...

 

[Gator6x4]

I'll listen to anyone who has a decent idea no matter where they live, what color their skin is, who they have sex with or what their disposition is.

A closed mind is a terrible waste.

And the day you, me and America stops listening our democracy will fail and we will then have a country like those that allowed ******, Mao, Stalin and others of a like mind set to kill the millions of people because they did not think, speak or have the same morale’s or beliefs as the ruling dictator.

America has always prided itself on having a diverse society all of whom enjoys the same rights under our constitution and bill of rights. The US Constitution and Bill of Rights apply to all not those select few that was chosen because of a belief or chosen profession.

 

[3930dave]

Economic activity needs to be balanced against Victorian era pollution generation. Locally (N. America) I wish the rabid greenies would spend their time a little more productively - like say, getting Chinese polluters shutdown. A problem would be solved (gross levels of pollution), and Western factories might stand a fighting chance in the market.

I'm not going to apologize for a fellow Canadian, as it's just not my style.

What I will do is put a little context on the comments coming from British Columbia.

This is a province that has encouraged huge population growth in the Lower Mainland, but essentially built no bridges or roads since the 1950's. For 20+ years, they have not routed any public transit buses (the holy grail of green pols) over a major (ie. Trans Canada highway) bridge "because it takes too long". The province, and many of the inhabitants, like to portray themselves as "green", while they continue to idle vehicles in 10 Km+ traffic jams, which continue to grow.

Same province - a BC (ie. provincial government operated) ferry hits an island (union staff were alleged, or perhaps convicted by now, to have been on the bridge "having relations" at the time), and the ferry sinks, killing 2 people, bodies never recovered. Won't go into the union story any further, but you can likely find it quick enough.

This very green, highly socialist province has continued to leave this ferry sitting (submerged) with thousands of gallons of fuel and oil on board, in prime fishing grounds. In this case, I side with the Native Canadians, who do fish in this area - I'd be seriously pissed off too.

Same province - has finally decided (after losing something around $20 million in revenue) to install access controls (turnstiles), on a major transit line.

The economic base in BC has been allowed to erode to the point where growing dope accounts for way more revenue that Mining, Forestry, and Fishing combined.

So, what I'm getting at is that while the OP's comments may look a little strange to many TBN'ers here, they would probably pass for rational comments in BC.

But, unless you are going to move to BC, or plan to become a serious consumer of their major export crop, don't be surprised if you don't follow the logic...

Hunter said it best "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."


Rgsd, D.