Found a coyote, I think

   / Found a coyote, I think #211  
Heck, one of our cats is crazy about nuts, especially pistachios. He'll eat them as long as I plunk them down in front of him. Another loves mushrooms, as we found out when she "plucked" them all off the top of a pizza while we were in the other room watching a game. Animals crack me up sometimes.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #212  
Heck, one of our cats is crazy about nuts, especially pistachios. He'll eat them as long as I plunk them down in front of him. Another loves mushrooms, as we found out when she "plucked" them all off the top of a pizza while we were in the other room watching a game. Animals crack me up sometimes.

We used to have a cat that would kill or die to get some of that campbells white bean soup. He would be all over you, begging for some of that soup until you ladled out a little bit in a bowl on the floor. Of course most cats will want some ham or something like that, but he is the only one that I ever saw that really liked that bean soup.

James K0UA
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #213  
Sorry if this has been suggested; didn't have time to read each and every post, but my first thought looking at her picture was that she was a coy-dog (a cross). I don't think that wild canines take readily to humans, unless they have been selectively bred for that characteristic. When I was about 5 years old, we were given a coyote pup that didn't even have its eyes open. It managed to bite me the next day, as I tried to play with it like a puppy. My Dad, a man who was not one to mess around, settled the matter with great finality that evening when I told him.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #214  
Yea I keep coming back to this thread to see when the post about how things have gone side ways is going to be posted. You now have a wild animal that is not afraid of humans. I hope all goes well for you, but I don't see the happy ending in this experiment.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #215  
My dog would do a similar thing as an adolescent. She didn't play the keep away so much but would take what ever you set down and carry it over to "her" spot and admire it for while. If I was unable to find tool or a lug nut, I would go there to find it. It would be there with some other treasures I hadn't realized were missing. She doesn't do that anymore.
I find it interesting that these dogs of mine love vegetables. I don't recall ever knowing dogs that would fight over carrots or cantaloupe. Broccoli, rutabagas, corn on the cob, potatoes, even romaine lettuce are considered a real treat(all served uncooked).
You may want to offer Sandy a small piece of uncooked carrot and see if she will eat it.

the german shorthair we had when I was in HS would go out the cornfield, get herself an ear of corn, shuck it and eat the corn off the cob! it was interesting watching her do all this! she always had dogfood but I am guessing she needed what the corn had. the dogs I have now will eat ANYTHING!
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #216  
...As I asked in a previous post, what are the differences between domestic and wild dogs? Each can display the other's behavior and they both understand each other completely. They are both dogs from the canis family. How could you care about one and not the other, or at least be a bit curious?

I've been waiting to read more discussion about your question, but there have been few replies. I'm no expert, but I'll take a stab at it to hopefully keep the discussion going.

For me, the discussion doesn't even have to be about domestic vs. wild dogs. The discussion could very easily be about domestic vs. domestic dogs. I have two dogs, and I love them. I also have a neighbor with dogs, and I really don't like his dogs. It comes down to this... My dogs have been trained and have adapted to fit my lifestyle. His dogs do not fit my lifestyle. When I call a dog I expect that dog to come RIGHT NOW. His dogs are very undisciplined. He calls and blows his whistle and the dogs completely ignore him. He'll laugh and make up some excuse about how carefree and wonderful his dogs are, but the reality is that he simply can't control them. One of his dogs has killed a chicken of mine, and the other dog has killed a sheep of mine. The only reason the sheep killer is still alive is because the sheep and dog were both on his property (I was grazing my sheep on his pasture to keep the weeds down for him). The chicken killer is simply not welcome on my property. The neighbor comes often and we visit, but he knows better than to bring his dogs.

To the original point, a dog doesn't have to be wild to be a nuisance or dangerous. If a domestic dog can't learn the rules of living with people that dog will soon be unwelcome. The same goes for wild animals. They are very welcome in the wild, but if they can't learn to respect people they are soon not welcome near people.

I love what you are doing, Raspy. I think that your adventure is helping all of us understand and see coyotes differently than we did before. I also love that it's you doing it and not me. What you call wolf kisses I call biting. What you call a fun game of keep away, I call stealing my stuff. I don't have a lot of extra pairs of shoes that I can let an animal chew on. I don't even like having a puppy. I endure the puppy stage so that I can get a good, useful dog in the end.

I'm not asking anyone to be like me, but I'm trying to answer the question why someone could love one kind of dog and not another. The simple answer is that it's not the life I have chosen. I love my life, and I have carefully chosen the life I have. I have chosen to have dogs that are well behaved. I have chosen to have chickens and sheep that I want to keep. I have chosen to be able to leave a project incomplete without worrying that my tools or parts will come up missing in some hidden den somewhere. I have chosen to not have to worry about who sees my pet because keeping her and transporting her is against the law.

You've been so good, Raspy, to let us into your life and into your heart to understand why you are doing what you are doing. This has been my attempt at letting you into my heart to understand why I would not do what you are doing.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#217  
Iplay,

Nice response and thank you. I see where you are coming from and I appreciate that.

My questions don't revolve around trained or disciplined dogs. They are about what a natural dog is and does. Dogs in the wild vs domestic dogs that are not trained to follow human rules. And we can't train out all bad behaviors even from the most docile domestic dogs. So just what is the difference? How close are they to being the same? How can we find out? Who knows that we can ask?

I have dogs too, and they are trained. I am more curious about Sandy and who she naturally is. We are also training her within reason and her abilities. This training not only makes her more sociable, but makes her safer, as it would any dog. However, I am not working on a long term plan to make her a house pet or a working dog. I am curious as to what she does and who she is and if she can be a good citizen in our world instead of a "killing machine". The most important lesson from this is can a wild dog be domestic?

If I introduce her to humans and take the need to kill to eat problem away, how will she react? The opposite could be done to domestic dogs, I suppose. Nearly starve them and throw them in with a litter of coyotes at 3 days old and see what you get. Probably a wary hunter that is afraid of humans. Even domestic dogs that live in homes can pack up and kill deer or threaten neighbors.

So the question about loving one and not the other is bigger than the ability to love them because they are highly disciplined. It's a question about the species as a whole. Some are "wild' And some are "domestic. They have fascinating natural traits and personalities and methods and needs. These show intelligence and intention. Those things bring about respect or dislike from us. The important thing to me in this case is, are "domestic" dogs different than "wild coyotes" and, if so, how and why. Can we work with those differences or are they too dangerous or stupid or unfriendly or messy or impossible to train, etc. Before we can know these things we have to see who they are in a similar setting and take away the circumstances that would make ANY dog act wild and crazy.

Remember too, I fell into this situation and we only acted to save a dying infant nearly frozen and abandoned in the desert. Later we began to realize what we had and what we had taken on. I'm not a trained behaviorist, I don't have approved facilities, the experiment can end at any time, etc. But, I am also curious, resourceful and care about dogs on a level that doesn't require them to pay their way. I know that I will never answer any of these questions adequately by learning from hearsay or myth. Many so called experts have completely differing opinions. I am ready to take action if the whole deal goes south at any time. And I keep going because, at this point, Sandy is a fine little animal that has a lot of energy and a good nature. She's interesting. She fits in and is not dangerous.

My other dogs are under control all the time and are not allowed to inconvenience anyone.

And finally, my curiosity and my satisfaction in this endeavor doesn't hinge on Sandy's ability to strictly be a good citizen and not inconvenience me by playing keep-away. Her ability to have a sense of humor, want to play with me in the morning, give very warm greetings, demonstrate submission, demonstrate ownership, develop strategies to accomplish what she wants and her ability to learn our schedule and fit herself into a natural setting here, is VERY important in learning who she is and who coyotes might be. Training is important and a lot of it is going on that doesn't necessarily pertain to normal working dog or domestic dog habits. I have limited her normal training because she may not be here long. I cut her some slack with some behaviors that should not turn into habits in the long run.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #218  
Iplay,

Nice response and thank you. I see where you are coming from and I appreciate that.

My questions don't revolve around trained or disciplined dogs. They are about what a natural dog is and does. Dogs in the wild vs domestic dogs that are not trained to follow human rules. And we can't train out all bad behaviors even from the most docile domestic dogs. So just what is the difference? How close are they to being the same? How can we find out? Who knows that we can ask?

I have dogs too, and they are trained. I am more curious about Sandy and who she naturally is. We are also training her within reason and her abilities. This training not only makes her more sociable, but makes her safer, as it would any dog. However, I am not working on a long term plan to make her a house pet or a working dog. I am curious as to what she does and who she is and if she can be a good citizen in our world instead of a "killing machine". The most important lesson from this is can a wild dog be domestic?

If I introduce her to humans and take the need to kill to eat problem away, how will she react? The opposite could be done to domestic dogs, I suppose. Nearly starve them and throw them in with a litter of coyotes at 3 days old and see what you get. Probably a wary hunter that is afraid of humans. Even domestic dogs that live in homes can pack up and kill deer or threaten neighbors.

So the question about loving one and not the other is bigger than the ability to love them because they are highly disciplined. It's a question about the species as a whole. Some are "wild' And some are "domestic. They have fascinating natural traits and personalities and methods and needs. These show intelligence and intention. Those things bring about respect or dislike from us. The important thing to me in this case is, are "domestic" dogs different than "wild coyotes" and, if so, how and why. Can we work with those differences or are they too dangerous or stupid or unfriendly or messy or impossible to train, etc. Before we can know these things we have to see who they are in a similar setting and take away the circumstances that would make ANY dog act wild and crazy.

Remember too, I fell into this situation and we only acted to save a dying infant nearly frozen and abandoned in the desert. Later we began to realize what we had and what we had taken on. I'm not a trained behaviorist, I don't have approved facilities, the experiment can end at any time, etc. But, I am also curious, resourceful and care about dogs on a level that doesn't require them to pay their way. I know that I will never answer any of these questions adequately by learning from hearsay or myth. Many so called experts have completely differing opinions. I am ready to take action if the whole deal goes south at any time. And I keep going because, at this point, Sandy is a fine little animal that has a lot of energy and a good nature. She's interesting. She fits in and is not dangerous.

My other dogs are under control all the time and are not allowed to inconvenience anyone.

And finally, my curiosity and my satisfaction in this endeavor doesn't hinge on Sandy's ability to strictly be a good citizen and not inconvenience me by playing keep-away. Her ability to have a sense of humor, want to play with me in the morning, give very warm greetings, demonstrate submission, demonstrate ownership, develop strategies to accomplish what she wants and her ability to learn our schedule and fit herself into a natural setting here, is VERY important in learning who she is and who coyotes might be. Training is important and a lot of it is going on that doesn't necessarily pertain to normal working dog or domestic dog habits. I have limited her normal training because she may not be here long. I cut her some slack with some behaviors that should not turn into habits in the long run.

Check out this video; you can also continue your research into "Russian Fox Experiments" that will be somewhat enlightening and may answer some of your questions. Having a rudimentary knowledge of these experiments is what prompted me to opine that your animal might be a "coy-dog", or a cross with a domestic dog because of her uncharacteristic social behavior.


The Silver Fox Experiment - YouTube
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #219  
Check out this video; you can also continue your research into "Russian Fox Experiments" that will be somewhat enlightening and may answer some of your questions. Having a rudimentary knowledge of these experiments is what prompted me to opine that your animal might be a "coy-dog", or a cross with a domestic dog because of her uncharacteristic social behavior.


The Silver Fox Experiment - YouTube

I wonder if 50 generations of intense pressure is enough to have the foxes look where humans point yet. Probably not. Many of the herders etc. know how to herd right out of the box.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #220  
Check out this video; you can also continue your research into "Russian Fox Experiments" that will be somewhat enlightening and may answer some of your questions. Having a rudimentary knowledge of these experiments is what prompted me to opine that your animal might be a "coy-dog", or a cross with a domestic dog because of her uncharacteristic social behavior.


The Silver Fox Experiment - YouTube

Thank you for that video, it was very entertaining. Food for thought, as they say. I was surprised also that Sandy is so tame. Very interesting, I am learning a lot about dogs and coyotes, and I myself have 7 dogs. Every dog is different, as are humans. Every dog has a different personality also. My 7 dogs are all so different even though some are of the same breed. Keep up the Sandy updates I look forward to new info every few days..............Brian
 

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