Found a coyote, I think

   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#201  
Keep in mind your breaking other game laws by killing wildlife if it is one out of season and 2 your dont have a license, which i doubt you have since you say you dont kill animals normally.

Perhaps you should read some earlier posts. I'm not a hunter and the rabbits we feed Sandy are roadkill. That means they were hit by cars. I have also given her lizards and they are not "out of season". I don't try to stop her from eating ants either. No license required for killing ants as far as I know.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #202  
I am a predator hunter fir 29 plus years. I have hunted fox coyote bobcat etc, let me warn you a coyote is a killing machine he kills to survive it's part of his nature your pets and others are not safe. The kindest thing would be take sandy as far from your premises as possible nature will supply the need she will quickly forget the human inflluence when she gets around her own kind . She will be accepted in a pack and become breeding material. That's the harsh truth of it the longer it goes the harder it will be.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#203  
Jesse,

We will be ready to do that, if we still have her, when she begins to display dangerous behaviors. She doesn't have to kill to survive here and she is being raised by a terrier and us. At this point she is just over 3 months old.

I'm sure you know more about coyotes than I do, but your experience seems to be only related to hunting them in the wild. You see them in a situation where they have to kill for a living and they are afraid of you. This may be different.

I'm looking for the differences between hardwired behaviors and intelligence driven behaviors. Since she was raised from about three days old by us, she has had no training from other coyotes. Some definite differences between her and wild coyotes are that she knows us, has formed habits around living with us, wants to play games with us, clearly sees us as her pack, bonded with my wife at a few days old and trusts us.

So we'll see, and I'll report back with my findings, but at this point, I'm not willing to classify her as a killing machine who is after our pets.

We have also been told by several experts that letting her go in the wild is a death sentence unless she can hunt. That strange coyotes are likely to be killed by other ones and that females don't leave the pack until about eight months old. She will be a stranger with no pack and unable to breed until about a year old, at least. She is also not savvy about the ways of the wild and has less fear of humans than other coyotes. If she saw a human and was hungry, she would likely approach and be misunderstood as sick. That would lead to getting shot.

I know there are some risks involved. But I also know coyotes are reviled for reasons that are not necessarily fair or right. Government programs designed to reduce their numbers have had the opposite effect. Too many people are looking for something to shoot at and will use them for target practice. These same folks might have domestic dogs living in their homes. As I asked in a previous post, what are the differences between domestic and wild dogs? Each can display the other's behavior and they both understand each other completely. They are both dogs from the canis family. How could you care about one and not the other, or at least be a bit curious?

Don't mistake my comments about hunting them as a gun rant of some kind, it's not. I have guns and like to shoot. I just don't shoot animals for fun. I also understand completely why farmers and others would shoot them to protect livestock.

It might be nice if it was really as simple as you say and recommend, but it's not. Once we brought her home, nearly frozen and abandoned, we decided to help her and give her a chance. We realized it would be an interesting opportunity for us as well. We have learned a tremendous amount from her and have grown to love her as anyone might with a domestic dog. She is very interesting and fun to have around, and also difficult at times. There is a lot more to her than I imagined. She is truly an intelligent being with a ton of personality.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #204  
I didn't mean to act un caring if I did m sorry I personally hunt coyotes because I love my dogs and in the hills of il they are so thick they truly are a threat especially in feb when breeding if not kept in check they would desolate pets along with deer and turkey they are very successful hunters and with 10 to 12 in a pack they are also formidable.when unafraid od man the threat grows. We see a toddler they see a easy meal. It's there nature I don't hate them I respect there potential.and yes they are in the canine family but thousands of years of choice breeding has buried many of these attributes they possess out of dogs a house cat is a feline and so is a lion. There is a grave difference between them.I know you love her but she should be in a zoo or in the wild, not in a human family.unfourtantly the only warnig sign you may get is teeth in flesh. Maybe not though well see. Good luck
 
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   / Found a coyote, I think #205  
Here are a few more pix of Sandy.
She's seems to be considerably larger than Bei bei now (It just occurred to me that my dog 's name is bebe, she's 14 years old and is as spry as a pup, my pride and joy
Who is the girl in the red shorts? Looks like she is being held up for a drink of water......
I'm sure you know more about coyotes than I do, but your experience seems to be only related to hunting them in the wild. You see them in a situation where they have to kill for a living and they are afraid of you. This may be different.
I think you know a lot more about coyotes than most of us now John :thumbsup: at least when it comes to young females....female coyotes :2cents:
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #206  
John: Glad to see an update. Sandy sure is growing, I'm glad there have not been any problems. As for the breeding of pure breeds nature is a lot more selective than man ever thought about being, in the wild packs will only allow select ones to breed to keep bad traits and in breeding out of the picture. Pure bred domestics are not as selective and alot more in-bred than one would like to think. I have found that mixed breed (mutts) are generally healthier than Purebreds, which Sandy with her natural selection of breeding will be alot more healthy. I have noticed in the pics that Sandy still considers BeiBei the Alpha in her pack!
Hopefully you are getting some work done on the new house. I know with work and animals that we have here it is tough to get to everything when you want to.

Stay cool and have fun

Randy
 
   / Found a coyote, I think
  • Thread Starter
#207  
Randy,

I agree with you on the inbred purebreds. My favorites are mutts for personality and health. With Sandy I'm seeing a whole new meaning of pure bred.

Bei Bei is still clearly the alpha dog here. Sandy is a kid that is always pushing the limits and she crosses the line frequently. I'm in a dilemma because I want to study her and I want to control her actions where needed. In some ways she sees me as the pack leader, but she is also independent or stubborn and hard to control. Think of her as an active and confident little kid that will tease her parents. Since her actions have been good natured so far, I am more inclined to observe and interact, than control. Her keep-away game is a good example. She causes some trouble, but is so funny it that I just have to laugh. Her wolf kisses are another. I know I should not be allowing her to do it, but it's how she expresses herself and I'm not training her with a long term view. She also can express many emotions and levels of intention through her mouth, so eliminating that avenue of communication would be a loss for both of us.


Robert,

The bucket that Sandy is stretching to reach into is the one used to bring roadkill home. Whenever Sandy sees that bucket she is all over it. The girl in the picture is my wife Liye. She had just parked and was walking back to the house when Sandy intercepted her and took the rabbit right out of the bucket.

We've now also found she doesn't like squirrels. Found on the road like rabbits and brought home, they get ignored or taken away and left somewhere.

Sandy is very cautious or wary around other animals she hasn't met, or new people that come to visit. Loud noises scare her. But when she is not scared, with her pack and having fun, she is a handful. When she wants to play or wants a rabbit or wants a treat or wants a toy or whatever, she is relentless. Her level of intensity goes up and her willingness to be corrected goes down. A better way to look at it is she is enthusiastic and alive. Full of energy. Lost in the game and unaware of the consequences. A happy little kid. At those times it becomes hard to stop her from doing things that we don't want her to. I finally grab the back of her neck and pull her to the ground while saying NO!. Maybe this happens a few times until she gets it. No hitting and no extended anger, just a quick response while she is actually doing the thing. Then she will move on to something else and she doesn't become afraid of me because of the correction.

Her keep-away game involves a deliberate challenge. She wants to be chased. She tries to hurry up and get the item before I can get to her. It's all about speed, interacting, chasing, hiding and challenging. She analyses my moves as she watches at an angle while trying to get the item and leave. Very funny and sometimes annoying. Today she was running off with light bulbs and then tools I was using. While I was changing the oil on my truck she kept coming by to grab a wrench, then my flashlight, than a rag. Then she wanted the cap for the oil tank and walked into the oil. I could not shoo her away long enough to get done. And I could not be mad at the playful little dog.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #208  
John,

Great thread - keep the reports coming.

We apparently have a pair of coyotes that have denned on the edge of our backyard in an old groundhog burrow .... they have two pups ....

I'm not all that excited about having them around (we have two cats .... that we are now trying to turn into house cats - they haven't been out in about a week) .... but it is fun watching the pups play ....
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #209  
Today she was running off with light bulbs and then tools I was using. While I was changing the oil on my truck she kept coming by to grab a wrench, then my flashlight, than a rag. Then she wanted the cap for the oil tank and walked into the oil. I could not shoo her away long enough to get done. And I could not be mad at the playful little dog.
My dog would do a similar thing as an adolescent. She didn't play the keep away so much but would take what ever you set down and carry it over to "her" spot and admire it for while. If I was unable to find tool or a lug nut, I would go there to find it. It would be there with some other treasures I hadn't realized were missing. She doesn't do that anymore.
I find it interesting that these dogs of mine love vegetables. I don't recall ever knowing dogs that would fight over carrots or cantaloupe. Broccoli, rutabagas, corn on the cob, potatoes, even romaine lettuce are considered a real treat(all served uncooked).
You may want to offer Sandy a small piece of uncooked carrot and see if she will eat it.
 
   / Found a coyote, I think #210  
I find it interesting that these dogs of mine love vegetables. I don't recall ever knowing dogs that would fight over carrots or cantaloupe. Broccoli, rutabagas, corn on the cob, potatoes, even romaine lettuce are considered a real treat(all served uncooked).
When our kids were young we got them a pair of beagles - brother and sister - "Bitsy" (she was the runt of the litter) would eat wild raspberries when we took her with us on berry gathering forays ....

She would even try to rear up on her hind legs to get the ones she couldn't reach on all fours ....
 

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