Foton 404 - Starter makes winding sound

[rickyddriskill]

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to work on it this evening and see what happens. I'll keep you updated on how it goes.

 

[Bob Rooks]

For the life of me I didn't know what was meant by "winding sound' until it dawned on me that you mean "clock winding sound" winding sound - YouTube. If you had said the starter solenoid was chattering I would have understood immediately and told you to check the voltage on your batteries first.
"Most automotive batteries are rated in cold cranking amperes, or CCA. This is the maximum available discharge current that a battery can sustain while maintaining at least 8 volts (65% rating) with the battery at 32ｰF / 0ｰC.
Most any other battery or cell, whether automotive, deep cycle, backup, industrial, or off-highway, is rated in its ampere/hour rate. This is the maximum rate at which a battery can discharge while maintaining rated voltage for at least one hour (ampere-hour). Some automotive cranking (starting) batteries will still display the amp/hour capacity as a secondary rating, or "reserve capacity" rating.
For automotive starting purposes, the CCA rating is more appropriate and relevant. A battery with a high CCA rating may not have a lot of reserve capacity, while a higher amp/hour rated battery may not be able to develop the same level of peak output current necessary to operate a starter as a starting battery. Starting batteries are designed to produce a high current for a short interval, then recover quickly. This kind of duty is not suitable for a deep cycle and will destroy one in a hurry." Your two 6 volt batteries in series is akin to a 12 volt deep cycle battery.

 

[rickyddriskill]

Chris,

I definitely need some help. Tried everything listed here with no success. I even went to rural king and bought a new battery. Still the winding sound. I also tried turning the flywheel, very hard to turn, but it did seem to move. My concern is the engine is locked up or some other major problem. Feel like a made a huge mistake at this point. It seems there are very few parts suppliers and virtually no one locally who works on these things.

 

[Rich Waugh]

If your starter is making that chattering sound like Bob Rooks spoke of, then you want to check out things like the battery ground, battery cables, etc. Low voltage is often caused by rust at connections, corrosion, etc. Clean everything to bare metal and then reassemble. Does this only happen when yo try to start it witht eh key, or does it also happen when you jump the solenoid with screwdriver?

Diesel engines, even small ones like these, are hard to turn over - lots of compression and heavy parts to move. Did you try to turn it over with the compression release pulled?

 

[greg_g]

If you bought a new battery, you must not have had success jumping it at the battery. But did you clean the frame ground down to bare metal? Did you try to short-start it at the solenoid? In a majority of cases, the problem turns out to be insufficient voltage between the keyswitch and the starter solenoid. Those solenoids need full battery voltage to throw the pinion into the ring gear on time, every time. When it drops to below 10 volts, you start to have problems. When you get into the 8-9 volt range, it's more misses than hits. Below 8 volts, about the best you'll get is clicking. #1 problem can consistently be traced to a dirty ground. #2 problem is pretty consistently found between the keyswitch and the solenoid.

//greg//

 

[zonta223]

Chris,

I definitely need some help. Tried everything listed here with no success. I even went to rural king and bought a new battery. Still the winding sound. I also tried turning the flywheel, very hard to turn, but it did seem to move. My concern is the engine is locked up or some other major problem. Feel like a made a huge mistake at this point. It seems there are very few parts suppliers and virtually no one locally who works on these things.

Tommy from affordable Tractors will be able to sell you any parts you need you only have to ask.
You have not mentioned what happened when you tried to jump the power on the solenoid?
The electrics on these tractors are not complicated they are a basic 1960's technology, no computers or flash electronics, and competent mechanic/auto electrician will be able to trouble shoot your problem in a few mins

 

[rickyddriskill]

Where is the compression release? I tried jumping the solenoid and it does the same thing. I did put a meter on the solenoid and it is 12v but seems to drop when the key is turned.

 

[rickyddriskill]

Cleaned all terminals and re-assembled all cabling using Vaseline to ensure good connections. Same problem. I recorded it this time and uploaded to YouTube. This is super frustrating. Thanks in advance for any assistance. I'm a computer guy with very little mechanical skills. I'm ready to someone to fix it unless anyone else has other ideas.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Cleaned all terminals and re-assembled all cabling using Vaseline to ensure good connections.

Vaseline is not dielectric grease. Get it out of there. Use this or equivalent.

CRC Grease-Dielectric Tune-Up .5Oz CRC-05109,Distributor Caps & Tune-Up Kits,JMSOnline.net Marine Supply and Boating Store

It sounds like the relay contacts or the windings in the solenoid are shot. Possibly the brushes in the starter too.

 

[EE_Bota]

Will his starter be of the type that works like this animation?

Car Starter Animation - Catia V5 - YouTube

If so, the solenoid engages the starter gear to the flywheel and THEN completes a circuit to turn the starter motor.

I agree with Bob Rooks, something fishy about that. Lousy electrics can cause voltage drops so bad when the starter is powered, that the solenoid cannot stay in. But, usually, that doesn't result in starter freewheeling...since

1)gears are already engaged on a proper system, so starter cannot run free, but is instead connected to the load already.
2)as the solenoid drops out, stalled starter is un-powered before gears disengage.