Foton 404 - Starter makes winding sound

[rickyddriskill]

Greg,

I think that is the problem. The engine is not turning over at all, even when I keep the key turned or the screwdriver on for a longer period of time. In all my attempts, I have yet to hear the engine turn over one time. It's like the pinion is not engaging the engine, but when I took it to a local shop the pinion did come out and he said it seemed to have enough force too.

 

[Bob Rooks]

My issue with you is, you are trying to sell me a part without even knowing if it will solve my problem. I'm in sales and would not dare attempt the tactic you just employed. It is these kinds of sales methodologies that give us a bad name.
I can uderstand your apprehension about dealing with another salesperson, being one yourself, but Tommy has been around these boards for a long time and is highly regarded by everyone.

If you're on here to help, and possibly solve some problems, that is great but if you just wanna sell me anything you can without helping me then I will find another supplier. Please don't be a slime ball.
Tommy was telling you he had the parts available should you need them, and was showing a common courtesy. Your comments are unwarranted and so out of place.

Put a **** socket on the front of the crankshaft and see if the engine will turn over by hand (make sure the transmission is in neutral and the wheels are blocked). If the engine won't turn over freely then remove the glow plugs and try again. You could possibly have other issues (with the tractor).

 

[greg_g]

Greg,

I think that is the problem. The engine is not turning over at all, even when I keep the key turned or the screwdriver on for a longer period of time. In all my attempts, I have yet to hear the engine turn over one time. It's like the pinion is not engaging the engine, but when I took it to a local shop the pinion did come out and he said it seemed to have enough force too.

Well the engine is turning over, or the starter wouldn't have spun up enough to make that winding down noise. When a flywheel won't budge, all you get is a grunt out of a quickly overheating starter. My recommendation is based simply on what I saw and heard in your brief clip. If you say all you get is click/spin, fine. That's STILL either (a) bad solenoid, or (b) insufficient voltage from the keyswitch. To narrow it down, you have to measure the voltage at the solenoid while the starter is under load.

//greg//

 

[rickyddriskill]

Thanks Greg. How do I measure the voltage at the solenoid while the starter is under load?

 

[EE_Bota]

Thanks Greg. How do I measure the voltage at the solenoid while the starter is under load?

I'm not Greg, but this may save the real Greg some typing.
Starter Voltage Drop Test Explained in Plain English | AutoTechnician.org

In the link above, he is testing from starter to the negative terminal. The test can be repeated on the positive to positive battery cable attachment point. In EE, the sum of all voltage drops around a loop will be zero. This is nothing more than a statement of the fact that all voltages must "add up."

 

[rickyddriskill]

Went out and bought a socket set big enough to turn the engine over. It turns over. Hooked my battery charger directly to solenoid, set the charger to start on 12v 55amp setting and tried to start. Did make a little bit different sound this time but I'm ready to move forward on a new starter and solenoid.

 

[greg_g]

Thanks Greg. How do I measure the voltage at the solenoid while the starter is under load?

Takes either a remote starter lead, or two people. You hold the + lead of the voltage meter on the solenoid post to which the keyswitch wire is connected. Keep the - lead of the voltage meter grounded. Initial reading will simply be battery voltage, as there's no load present yet. But as soon as the remote starter is engaged - or as soon as a helper turns the keyswitch to START - the voltage will drop.

Chinese compacts are typically under-wired. Plus they use really cheap switches. But the typical starter problems with Chinese tractors are slightly different than primarily addressed in that link above. this isn't about cranking voltage, it's about getting the starter to engage in the first place. The solenoid needs full voltage to throw the pinion gear into the ring gear. Unless/until the pinion and ring gear teeth engage, the starter motor cannot turn the flywheel. When to the solenoid drops, the pinion is thrown with proportionately less force. As I said above, 11-12 volts is good, 9-10 volts often results in that winding noise, 7-8 volts usually just results in clicking. I lost so much starting voltage on my TS354C, that I ended up (a) installing a better quality keyswitch, (b) bypassing the clutch interlock switch, (d) adding a starter relay, and (d) using 10AWG primary wire between the new relay and the starter solenoid.

55 amps from the charger won't help much. Often times a perfectly healthy car battery won't work either. Like I said, most tractor diesels need 750 or more good healthy cold cranking amps.

//greg//

 

[rickyddriskill]

I appreciate all the help guys.

I would like to formally apologize to Tommy from Affordable Tractor. Sorry Tommy. I was frustrated and now realize you were just trying to help. No excuses, I just made a mistake.

 

[Affordable]

Apology Accepted ! I think we are all trying to help you, but you have to also understand that you mentioned you were not very mechanical, when I hear someone say that I try to think of a easier solution, thats why I mentioned Starter and solenoid, I was not trying to get some big sale

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Hillside2008]

Has anyone considered that it is possibly a bad starter drive/clutch unit. I listened to the sound of the starter in the video and, in my experience, I would say that the drive unit is faulty. If the drive is faulty, the starter will spin but will not turn the engine. Just my 2 cents worth.