Farmall Super C Seized Engine

[TommyJD790]

I got my Super C home the other night after a few hours of wrestling it out of an overgrown field.

Today, I started the process of getting the engine runnning and ran into a number of things I was hoping I wouldn't have to deal with. Oh well, such is life.

The tractor was sitting in the field for the past few years and didn't have any exhaust on it. It did have a coffee can covering the hole in the hood, but that was it. Apparently water got in. Not surprised.
The manifold had a lot of scaley rust in it, and the threads that the muffler pipe should thread into, are completely shot, so I will most likely replace the manifold.
With the manifold off, I dumped a little mystery oil in the intake and exhaust ports.
Then I pulled the plugs. They were really stuck in there, but I carefully removed them without damaging the threads in the block. I dumped a little mystery oil in there too.
Then with the plugs out and the manifold off, I tried to hand crank the engine. Wouldn't budge. I put some pretty good torque on it, but still nothing.
So I figured I had a seized engine and I would check the oil. I couldn't find a dipstick, but found something on the side of the oil pan. This was some kind of plug, and I unscrewed it. Water came from this plug for about 2 minutes. It seemed like a lot of water.
So, what is this plug for ??? Is water supposed to come out of it ???

I attached a couple pictures.

Tomorrow I'll drain the oil and pull the pan. I don't really want to pull the head if I don't have to, but I'm sure that's where I'm heading next.

Also if anyone has any tips on unsticking a seized motor, I'd appreciate it.

Tommy-

 

[MIKE R]

Sounds like you are on the right track. That valve I the picture with water coming out of it is the oil dipstick. You open the plug when you are filling with oil until it runs out, then the oil level is at full. If you take out the lower plug and nothing comes out you need to add more oil as that is the low level. To unstuck a engine I would recommend pulling the head and filling each with a oil of your choice. Next get a block of wood that fits snugly into the cylinder (sits flat across the entire piston head up to the cylinder walls) and every day for probably two weeks give it a hit with a hammer in each cylinder then add more oil. Good luck and have fun. I am sure others have different methods so lets hope they chime in.

 

[Ken]

If the water is running out the full oil level plug so the pan is full and means the crank oil pump the timing gears main bearings rod bearing have been soaking in water for long time.
This is a easy to repaire engine instead of doing damage plan on rebuild will be doing the same anyways.
ken

 

[DJ54]

With that much water, and your location, I'd guess the sleeves are cracked. Hopefully the block is not cracked. Check the block for an external, horizontal crack, just above the level where the carb attaches to the manifold on both sides. Most I've seen seem to crack on the carb side. Then, when you remove the head, check the block for cracks between the sleeves. I've seen a couple of those too.

Definitely needs to be taken down, and brought back up.

 

[AKwelder]

I have seen the engines drained, filled with penetrating oil of some sort, one old timer swears by Howes diesels additive,and then working on it every couple nights.

Don't forget to check the oil in the gear case, if you have water in the engine the tranny is most in question

If you get into a rebuild, the sleeves and kit are out there,


Good luck

 

[BobG_in_VA]

Drain the oil, pull the pan, pull the head, put about 1 inch of Automatic Trans Fluid (ATF) in each cly...let sit, in the meantime, check the the lower end for rust/corrosion, etc...sounds like the water was at least 6" deep in the pan. You can also drain the trans...big screw in nut on the bottom of the differential...probably has never been changed...be prepared for a bunch of water, followed by globs of stuff resembling tar balls...let it set and drain overnight...PS: if its in gear and you put your foot on the clutch, can you move the tractor? ie. has the clutch frozen up to the flywheel? BobG in VA

 

[TommyJD790]

With the clutch in, the tractor will roll fine.

Today I pulled the head and pulled the oil pan. The parts don't look too bad.
I coated them all with WD40 and put more mystery oil in the cylinders.
Had a few stuck valves too, so i pulled them, cleaned them up and put them back in.
I'll try the automatic tranny fluid.

How long should I let it sit. ??

I was thinking I need to pull the crank out of it and free up one cylinder at a time, but there is a lot of other things to dis-assemble before I can get it out.

This is turning into more work than I wanted.

Tommy-

 

[mad_planter]

I'd pull the head and work on it in two halves. There's a good chance the valves are stuck and pulling the head may allow you to get the rest turning freely.

With the clutch in, the tractor will roll fine.

Today I pulled the head and pulled the oil pan. The parts don't look too bad.
I coated them all with WD40 and put more mystery oil in the cylinders.
Had a few stuck valves too, so i pulled them, cleaned them up and put them back in.
I'll try the automatic tranny fluid.

How long should I let it sit. ??

I was thinking I need to pull the crank out of it and free up one cylinder at a time, but there is a lot of other things to dis-assemble before I can get it out.

This is turning into more work than I wanted.

Tommy-

 

[TommyJD790]

Well after a couple weeks of soaking, I could see than these pistons were not going to free up while connected to the crank.
As soon as I pulled the crank, 2 pistons easily just tapped out.
The other 2 took a bit more persuation, but I got'em.
One of the pistons is busted, but I found one on e-pay.
I honed the cylinder sleeves and they look nice. Time for re-assembly.

Tommy-

 

[DJ54]

You want to take a real close look at those sleeves, and look for a vertical dark streak, ie: crack. Usually front, or back of sleeve, inline with crank.

New rings..??

Just hate to see someone do all that work, and have to do it all over again...

 

[BobG_in_VA]

DJ54 makes sense...if you honed the sleeves, put new rings in...by the way, if you drained the trans, it will take right at 5 gals of 80w-90 gear oil to refill...there is a small "plug" (either hex head or external 4 sided plug) on the right side of differential (from behind) about halfway up...this is the level of gear oil...obviously take it out..put 5 gals in the refill next to the gear shift, check for run out at the plug...good luck.. BobG in VA

 

[TommyJD790]

I haven't really looked too much at the trans or differential.
I think i 've seen the plug, but not really sure where the fill plug is.
I have a book coming, so I hope that will help.

Tommy-

 

[TommyJD790]

You want to take a real close look at those sleeves, and look for a vertical dark streak, ie: crack. Usually front, or back of sleeve, inline with crank.

New rings..??

Just hate to see someone do all that work, and have to do it all over again...

Oh yes, new rings are on the way.

Tommy-

 

[TommyJD790]

Well, I don't see any cracks in the sleeves, but should I just bite the bullet and replace them while everything's torn down?
It looks like i'd need a special puller to get them out, which I don't have.

Tommy-

 

[MIKE R]

It looks like i'd need a special puller to get them out, which I don't have.

You can also make a puller. A friend of mine made one out of threaded rod, 2 metal plates and some nuts. It wasn't the best set up but worked to get the sleeves out.

 

[DJ54]

That would have to be your call in my opinion. Again, I hate to spend someone else's money, if they don't have to. Sleeve set kits are in the neighborhood of $300.00+. Some kits are oversized to 3-1/4" bore giving you a little more power. I lucked out last year, and picked up a 3-1/4 bore sleeve/piston set on epay for $189.00.

If you do decide to go that route, might as well mic. the crank.

I have made my own puller from a piece if 5" channel for on top, and a 3/8" round disc for the bottom, and some grade 5 all thread. I've also just knocked them out. flipping the engine upside down on the engine stand. A good oak 4X4 long enough to clear the skirt of the bottom of the block, a 1" piece of oak cut to fit laid across the bottom of the sleeve, and a 4 lb. hammer. Several good licks, and they pop out.

Not sure what they use anymore to lube the sleeve seals, but we just always used Vasoline. Never had any problems over the years.

I am curious if there was any coolant left in the block. Sure seemed like an awful lot of water to go down around the rings. Be sure and check the webbing at the bottom of where the sleeves seal too. I have seen them crack there too. I'm sure not trying to get you down... Just want you to take a real good look, before ordering more stuff.

Be sure and flush the oil pump real well too..!!

 

[TommyJD790]

Thanks DJ54.

You're not really getting me down. I got down when I realized the engine was seized, and now I just want to get it back together.
I am trying to get it running for the least amount of money, but I only want to do this once.

I kind of doubt they will just pop out if I hammer them from the bottom, because I think they would have moved when I was hammering the pistons, but maybe with a bigger hammer , it might work.

I have been looking carefully for cracks all over the block and I don't see anything. That doesn't mean they don't exist. With my luck (bad luck), I'll get the thing back together and find out the hard way.

Tommy-

 

[TommyJD790]

Made the executive decision to pull the sleeves. Me and my 8 year old son knocked them out in about 5 minutes. That was easy.
I'm not used to that.
I closely inspected the sleeves and the block and i'm confident that there are no cracks.
Regardless, I'm still going to put new sleeves and pistons in, and even though it's costing me a little more, I think it's worth it just to have the peace of mind that nothing's going to break.
I'll have to return the piston rings that I have coming, but no biggy.

I actually feel like this is gonna work out well now.

Thanks guys for the advice.:thumbsup:

Tommy-

 

[Soundguy]

If the water is running out the full oil level plug so the pan is full and means the crank oil pump the timing gears main bearings rod bearing have been soaking in water for long time.
This is a easy to repaire engine instead of doing damage plan on rebuild will be doing the same anyways.
ken

yep.. that much watr in the pan.. I'd drop the pan and expect lotsa crank and tg work especially.. wouldn't even try to continue baring it.

might fill the cyls with atf and diesel though. might be able to salvage them jugs and pistons.. maybee not. rings probably toast..

 

[TommyJD790]

Installed new sleeves and pistons last night.
Put the crank and the camshaft back in also. Just waiting on a gasket set so I can button this thing up.
Engine turns much better now
Even though the sleeves and pistons cost me more than what I was originally planning to spend, I think it's worth it.

Tommy-