Buying Advice Kubota L3800 vs Mahindra 3616

[DavesTractor]

I know a guy who has one with a 50'' bucket, the tires are wider than the bucket. I have also seen them at the dealer with a 50'' bucket. Checkout the bucket on this one. Maybe they just changed to 60'' bucket????

Have him measure again. They do not make a 50" bucket that fits a ML115. It will be a 60" bucket. However the point is well taken, if the tractor lifts so much, how about a little deeper and taller bucket? I think the answer lies somewhere between what the marketing people want (big numbers) and what the service people want. The service people do not want any compact tractor running around at 100% duty cycle. So they give you a strong loader, but unless you swap buckets or put forks on it, you will only occasionally use all of it's strength. That is just my conspiracy theory! Just my opinion.

LD1 makes a great point. His tractor lifts everything it needs to everytime. A full bucket of wet dirt or whatever. That is really what is important. The rest is just spreadsheet stuff and bragging rights. Unless LD1 was using forks and moving max capacity pallets or something, what his tractor lifts is entirely adequate.

The other point, if you don't mind me mixing responses to various posts, is that you really do have to check what the specs are measuring. At the pins? At 59"? At full heigth? 500mm forward? It all makes a big difference. I wish there was one standard, and I'd prefer the most usable standard which would be center of bucket lift capacity to 59". How often do you lift a max load from the pivot pins? How often do you lift a max load all the way to the top? So even though Mahindra rates at the pins to max lift heigth, I think there can be a better standard. But getting the marketing folks to all agree on what they may print on their brochures would be near impossible. The best we can hope for is that they will at least describe what they have measured and through what range of motion.

 

[DavesTractor]

I see tractors that are twenty years old, and I see them at fifty. I watch the uses of them as well as get to know the repair cycles as well as life cycles as to when people get fed up with the down time or the costs of the repairs. I've seen parts on machines that we can set the hours of use on, as well from normal wear and some that don't make it to far from tear. We work on many makes as some customers do choose to buy from out of the area or on the fringes to get a bargin or just don't have much of a need for it. We get to see many makes doing many jobs, we see some tractors that only last for three thousand hours before rebuilds. We get to see some go into five digits before having to rebuild. Yes use and care do make a difference. I don't find 30 to 40 dollar hydraulic filters expensive, 75 is expensive and as long as there is a tight contract between the manufactuer and marketer the price will probably stay in line. After the divorce or seperation see where the prices go. Then again that could be a good time to swap! I cringe every day with prices, I have sold machines that when new were only 2,500 but today they are 10,000. Used to sell 100 horsepower tractors for under 10,000 brand new, many still sell for that used today! I see some that were designed back then still selling new today only with new price. I don't put a lot of sugar and spice on things to cover, it will show up later. I've watched many things come and go, I remember when the compact tractors introduced by kubota came in to this country in the late 60's and start a whole new market that the majors raised their noses at right through the 70's trying to ignore. In the 80's everyone of them were jumping around from make to make to secure there markets with the people here. At 100 hours a year average only the commercial people really get to see what the compacts will really do day in and out.

Good points Art. We appreciate your experience and input.

 

[94BULLITT]

His kubota lifts 1142 on fel @ 24''s. Where is the max lifting 1402, on the the moon? How is the 3616 a deluxe model it does not have telescopic lift arms?

I was wrong I meant to say 500mm and 24''s.

Have him measure again. They do not make a 50" bucket that fits a ML115. It will be a 60" bucket. However the point is well taken, if the tractor lifts so much, how about a little deeper and taller bucket? I think the answer lies somewhere between what the marketing people want (big numbers) and what the service people want. The service people do not want any compact tractor running around at 100% duty cycle. So they give you a strong loader, but unless you swap buckets or put forks on it, you will only occasionally use all of it's strength. That is just my conspiracy theory! Just my opinion.

LD1 makes a great point. His tractor lifts everything it needs to everytime. A full bucket of wet dirt or whatever. That is really what is important. The rest is just spreadsheet stuff and bragging rights. Unless LD1 was using forks and moving max capacity pallets or something, what his tractor lifts is entirely adequate.

The other point, if you don't mind me mixing responses to various posts, is that you really do have to check what the specs are measuring. At the pins? At 59"? At full heigth? 500mm forward? It all makes a big difference. I wish there was one standard, and I'd prefer the most usable standard which would be center of bucket lift capacity to 59". How often do you lift a max load from the pivot pins? How often do you lift a max load all the way to the top? So even though Mahindra rates at the pins to max lift heigth, I think there can be a better standard. But getting the marketing folks to all agree on what they may print on their brochures would be near impossible. The best we can hope for is that they will at least describe what they have measured and through what range of motion.

I think his bucket even had 50" wrote on it with a paint marker. It was way narrower than the tractor. Maybe I am thinking wrong. I looked like something that should have been on a bx.

 

[DavesTractor]

Here is an example of a very misleading Mahindra load test.. Sure the Mahindra is heavier, and was able to pick up the load of 2400 lbs and move it.. BUT and a VERY BIG BUT..it was barely on the ground, and I do mean barely. One more bag of sand of front, and its rear tires would have been off also.. The JD was close to the same, Maybe if I was in the seat, (fat guy) it would have looked the same.. We are talking hairs here. Note the Mahindra was in 4WD.. the other tractors were in 2wd. Note the mahindra slipped the rear tires slightly when it took off and the front axle is what propelled the tractor. Also note for you disbelivers of the need for rear ballast how badly squished the front tires were on the Mahindra.. ALL of the tractors could have picked up and moved the load if they had been properly ballasted. NONE of the tractors were properly ballasted. All of the tractors could have moved the load as is if they were in 4wd.. Note I did not say safely move the load. Like I said.. and example of misleading (to a new person) demonstration. And also an example of unsafe ballasting and load handling.

Mahindra_Lift_Video - YouTube

James K0UA

I'll agree that was sort of a cheesy video. It does not speak to the loader strength, only tractor weight and any of the tractors could have been ballasted a little more, and in real life, would have been. So it really only says "the Mahindra is heavier and will perhaps need less ballast".

 

[DavesTractor]

Why don't they show the whole mahindra? Who would lift that much weight without a ballast?

Watch the entire video, they do show the entire Mahindra later in the video.

 

[DavesTractor]

I am impressed. That is a powerful little tractor.

James K0UA

Yes, the MAX25 TLB is quite a strong package. We were surprised that it lifted the backend of the forklift.

 

[LD1]

Here is an example of a very misleading Mahindra load test.. Sure the Mahindra is heavier, and was able to pick up the load of 2400 lbs and move it.. BUT and a VERY BIG BUT..it was barely on the ground, and I do mean barely. One more bag of sand of front, and its rear tires would have been off also.. The JD was close to the same, Maybe if I was in the seat, (fat guy) it would have looked the same.. We are talking hairs here. Note the Mahindra was in 4WD.. the other tractors were in 2wd. Note the mahindra slipped the rear tires slightly when it took off and the front axle is what propelled the tractor. Also note for you disbelivers of the need for rear ballast how badly squished the front tires were on the Mahindra.. ALL of the tractors could have picked up and moved the load if they had been properly ballasted. NONE of the tractors were properly ballasted. All of the tractors could have moved the load as is if they were in 4wd.. Note I did not say safely move the load. Like I said.. and example of misleading (to a new person) demonstration. And also an example of unsafe ballasting and load handling.

Mahindra_Lift_Video - YouTube

James K0UA

I absolutely HATE that vid. And hate the whole "more built in weight" line of BS. For starters, mahindra is comparing a MUCH larger tractor to smaller ones. A kubota M5040 @ 1000lbs heavier than the 5100 would have been a more apples to apples comparison. OR.....why didnt mahindra use their 5010 tractor in the comparison?????

ALL the tractor mfg make a tractor the size of that mahindra and will do whatever it will and more. It is just that all the other manufactures dont choose to put in a small and underpowered engine in so they can "claim" to be the best in that "horsepower" class.

To me, it isnt about more "built in weight". It is about "less built in power":laughing:

The other point, if you don't mind me mixing responses to various posts, is that you really do have to check what the specs are measuring. At the pins? At 59"? At full heigth? 500mm forward? It all makes a big difference. I wish there was one standard, and I'd prefer the most usable standard which would be center of bucket lift capacity to 59". How often do you lift a max load from the pivot pins? How often do you lift a max load all the way to the top? So even though Mahindra rates at the pins to max lift heigth, I think there can be a better standard. But getting the marketing folks to all agree on what they may print on their brochures would be near impossible. The best we can hope for is that they will at least describe what they have measured and through what range of motion.

I agree that it would be nice if specs were more standardized. BUT, the max height max lift @ pin measurment is actually pretty close to a bucket center @ 59" spec:thumbsup: So is a pretty good "real world" number. As demonstrated in your Max 25 lift vid. It is rated @ 900# to max height @ pins. And also lifted exactally 900# at a more reasonable height @ bucket center.

 

[DavesTractor]

Well, we beat the tractor spec and measurement thing to death again. And I still haven't converted LD1. I am beginning to think it is a lost cause. :dance1:

On the video comparisons, I think it is best if a dealer or manufacturer shows what their product can do, as opposed to what another product can't do. Because there are very few apple to apple comparisons in the tractor world. We went through this comparing the BX to the Max. And you could do the same thing with a Max to a B-series. Then a B-series to the 3016/3616. Then the 3016/3616 to a Grand L, and then the Grand L to the 35 series, and so on. Who wins will flip-flop each time you change the models.

When we did the two Max 25 videos, one lifting a forklift and the other pulling our loaded Freightliner, we left the other brands out of the picture. People think they are neat videos and are not trying to figure out how we sabotaged the other brand...because there was no other brand.

So back to the topic, L3800 or 3616? It's a little of a Chevy Vs Ford thing. Pick your preference, they are both good. If we are speaking of cabs, the 3616 is a really nice package and reasonably priced.

I gotta' get back to work.

 

[murphy1244]

Mad Max; If you want another Mahindra a Dealer by me (Medina Tractor) is taking offers on the stock they have.Warning, They are now turning pink from sitting sooo long you should get a great deal. Stock up now...

 

[DavesTractor]

Mad Max; If you want another Mahindra a Dealer by me (Medina Tractor) is taking offers on the stock they have.Warning, They are now turning pink from sitting sooo long you should get a great deal. Stock up now...

As if that would contribute in any manner to this thread. :confused3:

I can find some old stock Kioti tractors around as well, but why post something marginally inflammatory that does nothing but stir up brand loyalty?