Long Legs in an M59?

[4Papa]

Narrowed down my choice for a good, strong utility machine to an M59... the Leatherman of tractors. Potential problem, I'm 6'2" and often have legroom issues when sitting in vehicles and I haven't been able to find one to sit in. I've got some arthritis in the hip which doesn't enable me to sit long in any machine that doesn't have enough room to, at least, moderately stretch my right leg and extend my foot. This will be my first "small" tractor, having experience in only larger Ag tractors where legroom has not been as much an issue. Any taller (6' and taller) and older guys running the M59 have any thoughts regarding this concern?

 

[rScotty]

Good choice.

A few of us got M59s back when they first came out. You should read the thread:
"M59 Discussion Thread" started by Charles (charlesaf3). Lots of good info as all the first owners traded info on the then-new machines. On the 6th page I posted some pictures of how I raised the seat. I'm 6 foot and over 65. It's a decent seat, but needed to be a bit higher. In fact, it could be higher yet. No, the M59 seat doesn't compare with the seats in most large Ag tractors or commercial TBLs. But it's passable. The worst feature after raising it up a bit is that it lacks seat shock absorbers and is a bouncy ride traveling over rough ground.

Another problem for big guys is that the hand brake is on the side where your feet travel as you turn the seat around for the backhoe. Which makes it a bit of a ballet to get my 4Es through the gap.

I got into the M59 because I was looking for a something more like a Case 580 but in 2/3 size. And it has been an excellent machine. Every day I use it I like it better. Compared to a full size TBL, the M59 works surprisingly well. Everyone has been impressed with the amount of hard work it can do.

Let me know if you have questions.
Luck, rScotty

 

[4Papa]

I will check out the original thread. Are aftermarket seats available that would help out the lift/leg room issue and comfort? Also, living in New England, I'm sure I'll miss having a cab as I push snow around. You're in Colorado so you're no stranger to the white stuff. Do you push or blow snow with your M59?

 

[rScotty]

I'm sure there are seats available. Taking a look at the mounting it doesn't seem too difficult to change over if one could find a seat small enough to allow leg room while it rotates. The seat mount looks very simple to change out the seats. And it depends on how much tractor time us old guys put in. Raise it up like I did if that helps your hip arthritis. It does mine. Now the seat's OK for a few hours, and I rarely do more. If I did, I'd probably have bought differently.

I think we looked at all the machines on the market. Spent every weekend and many evenings for a couple of months. My wife was insisting we get a tractor to last us both the rest of our lives. She had watched (and helped) me fix old machinery for long enough! My wife was most impressed with the Caterpillar TLB. So was I. It is quality throughout. Even the upholstery is nice. And the cab is spacious enough for a jump seat and rider. And, they even have a 3pt conversion option! Not much bigger, but sturdy enough to make the M59 look like a toy. Problem was that even though the Cat and Case are similar size, both were just touch too big and heavy to be handy around our property. Surprisingly, the dealer had used ones not too much more $$ than an M59. Still expensive, but close enough to give us pause.

Don't underestimate the "handy" factor of the M59. I didn't realize until I started using it just how useful the super tight turning radius and overall smaller size would be.

Do you want or need the category II 3pt ability of the M59? If not, that opens up the available machines a bit. At the time I wanted that option, but haven't used it. If I'd known that at the time, I might have looked more seriously at a JD Ag tractor with loader and a solidmount backhoe. Please, Do NOT be tempted by a 3 pt backhoe no matter what they tell you. In machinery this size, a backhoe definitely needs to be part of the tractor. I tried it the other way round for years. Not good enough.

After buying the M59, I was at the rental yard one day and noticed that their rentals in Tractor/Backhoe/loader are all the JCB model 2CX. In size, the 2CX is somewhere between a Case 580 and the M59. That made it a possibility, but I just didn't know enough about the brand. It also doesn't have big tires on the rear and that would limit it in the snow.

Sure, we do have snow. Sometimes lots of it. But it is not usually the heavy wet kind you get.
Yes, I hear you. I join you in lusting after a nice front snow blower. But that would mean needing a cab, too. Until and if that happens, the M59 does have enough weight to bulldoze our snow easily in two to three foot snow depth. It takes 10 or 20 feet of doing that to pack the bucket and I can either just continue pushing down the driveway as it spills off the side of the bucket or go dump. After all, the M59 bucket is seven feet wide! Most cars can handle that size path. Your wet snow with ice under is probably going to require chains, though. On most equipment I prefer to run light weight front chains and none on the rear.
On the subject of snow, this M59 industrial tire has such good traction - especially when the tires are new and sharp edged - that I've yet to need to mount those clever front chains I had custom made. Expect I'll need to when the tires wear down more.
Well, that's enough rambling for now. What prices are you seeing?
good luck. rScotty

 

[dsgsr]

I'm 6' 2" and would like too set the seat back about 2", Not possible unless you place more bracing under the platform. I have 159 hours on the M59, the only thing I like about it is the reach of the hoe and front loader. I have run nothing but John Deere's for 14-yrs. and this Kubota is no were near JD quality. At 131 hours the BH bucket cutting edge broke, Not covered under warranty because It looks like two teeth were fetched up on something (huh). The horn popped out and I cannot get it to stay back in the wheel. The BH hydraulics slow down and speed up. I've checked the valve levers, they are always in where their supposed to be. The 3 pth hitch is a real pain too put on and remove. Nothing like the JD set up ( no tools). The HST pedal has already come out of adjustment, You must play with the pedal too get it started.


David

 

[4Papa]

I'm sure there are seats available. Taking a look at the mounting it doesn't seem too difficult to change over if one could find a seat small enough to allow leg room while it rotates. The seat mount looks very simple to change out the seats. And it depends on how much tractor time us old guys put in. Raise it up like I did if that helps your hip arthritis. It does mine. Now the seat's OK for a few hours, and I rarely do more. If I did, I'd probably have bought differently.

I think we looked at all the machines on the market. Spent every weekend and many evenings for a couple of months. My wife was insisting we get a tractor to last us both the rest of our lives. She had watched (and helped) me fix old machinery for long enough! My wife was most impressed with the Caterpillar TLB. So was I. It is quality throughout. Even the upholstery is nice. And the cab is spacious enough for a jump seat and rider. And, they even have a 3pt conversion option! Not much bigger, but sturdy enough to make the M59 look like a toy. Problem was that even though the Cat and Case are similar size, both were just touch too big and heavy to be handy around our property. Surprisingly, the dealer had used ones not too much more $$ than an M59. Still expensive, but close enough to give us pause.

Don't underestimate the "handy" factor of the M59. I didn't realize until I started using it just how useful the super tight turning radius and overall smaller size would be.

Do you want or need the category II 3pt ability of the M59? If not, that opens up the available machines a bit. At the time I wanted that option, but haven't used it. If I'd known that at the time, I might have looked more seriously at a JD Ag tractor with loader and a solidmount backhoe. Please, Do NOT be tempted by a 3 pt backhoe no matter what they tell you. In machinery this size, a backhoe definitely needs to be part of the tractor. I tried it the other way round for years. Not good enough.

After buying the M59, I was at the rental yard one day and noticed that their rentals in Tractor/Backhoe/loader are all the JCB model 2CX. In size, the 2CX is somewhere between a Case 580 and the M59. That made it a possibility, but I just didn't know enough about the brand. It also doesn't have big tires on the rear and that would limit it in the snow.

Sure, we do have snow. Sometimes lots of it. But it is not usually the heavy wet kind you get.
Yes, I hear you. I join you in lusting after a nice front snow blower. But that would mean needing a cab, too. Until and if that happens, the M59 does have enough weight to bulldoze our snow easily in two to three foot snow depth. It takes 10 or 20 feet of doing that to pack the bucket and I can either just continue pushing down the driveway as it spills off the side of the bucket or go dump. After all, the M59 bucket is seven feet wide! Most cars can handle that size path. Your wet snow with ice under is probably going to require chains, though. On most equipment I prefer to run light weight front chains and none on the rear.
On the subject of snow, this M59 industrial tire has such good traction - especially when the tires are new and sharp edged - that I've yet to need to mount those clever front chains I had custom made. Expect I'll need to when the tires wear down more.
Well, that's enough rambling for now. What prices are you seeing?
good luck. rScotty

We too considered full size TLB's (primarily CAT and Terex) and decided against it, primarily for cost. The size of those machines are less a problem for us than cost for a decent, low-time machine. I'm way past getting a thrill out of bandaging worn-out, tired equipment. My joy is the it works the first and every time I jump in it. Still, the big spacious cabs would be a big plus, not only in winter, but in summer when I tackle the heavy brush (with a front mount bush hog) that makes up a lot of our property.

Prices in this area (New England to Mid-Atlantic) for an M59 look to average around the low 40K's. A few low-time machines in the mid to high 40K's.

 

[4Papa]

I'm 6' 2" and would like too set the seat back about 2", Not possible unless you place more bracing under the platform. I have 159 hours on the M59, the only thing I like about it is the reach of the hoe and front loader. I have run nothing but John Deere's for 14-yrs. and this Kubota is no were near JD quality. At 131 hours the BH bucket cutting edge broke, Not covered under warranty because It looks like two teeth were fetched up on something (huh). The horn popped out and I cannot get it to stay back in the wheel. The BH hydraulics slow down and speed up. I've checked the valve levers, they are always in where their supposed to be. The 3 pth hitch is a real pain too put on and remove. Nothing like the JD set up ( no tools). The HST pedal has already come out of adjustment, You must play with the pedal too get it started.


David

Thanks for the reply. The fact that you, too are over six feet resonates. Like I said, I haven't been able to find one yet to sit in, let alone run it, so I don't know. I did get to sit in a 5740. The legroom was bareable as the HST peddle arrangement with the "lobe" coming off the top right of the peddle allows some leg stretch. Is this the same arrangement found on the M59?

 

[rScotty]

I'm 6' 2" and would like too set the seat back about 2", Not possible unless you place more bracing under the platform. I have 159 hours on the M59, the only thing I like about it is the reach of the hoe and front loader. I have run nothing but John Deere's for 14-yrs. and this Kubota is no were near JD quality. At 131 hours the BH bucket cutting edge broke, Not covered under warranty because It looks like two teeth were fetched up on something (huh). The horn popped out and I cannot get it to stay back in the wheel. The BH hydraulics slow down and speed up. I've checked the valve levers, they are always in where their supposed to be. The 3 pth hitch is a real pain too put on and remove. Nothing like the JD set up ( no tools). The HST pedal has already come out of adjustment, You must play with the pedal too get it started.
David

Good comments...although my experience has been different. Why were these things not fixed under warranty? BTW, I disagree with the comment about the seat bracing. I say it is more than accurate. "Overbuilt is a better description. I suggest for big guys we take along a seat cushion trying anything. That way you can see how it feels with the seat up a few inches. Simple to do.

I was raised with JD, have had JD for many years, subscribe to JD mags, and even own stock in the company. Plus I prefer the color. So that's where we went first to look at TLBs. Nobody was more disappointed than me to find that JD didn't make a comparable machine. Even worse, now after years with both I think that the Kubota is at least as good quality....maybe even better. Not better than the old JDs, but competitive with the new ones. And frankly I think that's a crying shame. JD 30/40 years ago sure seems different from now.

I'd still look first at JD for Ag and ranch use, but now that my eyes are open I'd look around at other makes before buying. I wish I could say differently.

On the 3pt, swapping the BH for the 3pt arms is probably more work on the Kubota - though it is easy enough on either. The Kubota 3 pt parts are sure a bunch heavier being Cat II instead of Cat I. Swapping front loader implements is much nicer on the Kubota. Also since they are standard Bobcat type loader mount instead of JD's special mount it makes it easier to try different attachments.

I haven't had the problems you've seen; the ones I had - and there were a couple - were taken care of under warranty without hassle.

Yes, the HST pedal has the tab out to the right. Some people prefer that, some prefer the JD dual pedal setup. I like the JD system for that, but do wish JD had the automatic load sensitive rev up/idle down feature that the Kubota has. That's common on industrial machines. And the Kubota has variable attack on the HST plus F/R inching on the backhoe. All areas where JD needs to get their technology up to speed....sigh....
rScotty

 

[dsgsr]

"but do wish JD had the automatic load sensitive rev up/idle down feature that the Kubota has. That's common on industrial machines. And the Kubota has variable attack on the HST plus F/R inching on the backhoe. All areas where JD needs to get their technology up to speed....sigh....
rScotty"

The JD 4720 that I almost ordered did have the automatic load sensitive rev up/idle down feature. The JD 110 had the f/r inching for BH use but was not the size of the M59.

The reason the problems haven't been taken care of under warranty is the backhoe bucket Not being covered. I told them if they won't cover the bucket, I'll will not be doing business with them again. I know it's kind of cutting my nose off to spite my face, but I'm one of those fools that try too stand for something.

The way it all began was, The bucket broke digging in hard clay, I called the service manager and let them know and would they order a new one and I would come get it when it came in. The manager said yes it probably would be covered and it would take a week or two to come in. I live an hour away and didn't want to make the trip just to show them the bucket and then have to return for the new one. A couple weeks later I get a call that the bucket was in. I was busy, I called my son and had him take the bucket off and run it in to the dealer. They exchanged the bucket out and when My son got home the service manager call for the hours on the M59 (131 hrs.) and too tell my son that the Kubota Service Rep. was going to be there the next day and the bucket may not be covered under warranty, The son called me and I called the Service manager and had a Minni meltdown over the BH bucket and told the manager all the other problems I was having with the 59.

So about 10-days go by and the Salesman calls me and said, the Kubota rep. thinks all of your problems can be fixed and when can you bring it in? I then say to the Salesman, " Is the bucket going to be covered under warranty" the salesman says, "well I don't know, I'll have to find out" I then say, "If the bucket isn't covered under warranty, You can stick the old bucket where the sun don't shine and send the bill to the Kubota Rep. cause I ain't paying it. Backhoe buckets Are supposed too be made to take a fetching or two during there lifetime and I won't be doing business with you folks again".

It's been 3-weeks and I haven't heard a thing from the Dealership.



David

 

[rScotty]

The way it all began was, The bucket broke digging in hard clay, I called the service manager and let them know and would they order a new one and I would come get it when it came in. The manager said yes it probably would be covered and it would take a week or two to come in. I live an hour away and didn't want to make the trip just to show them the bucket and then have to return for the new one. A couple weeks later I get a call that the bucket was in. I was busy, I called my son and had him take the bucket off and run it in to the dealer. They exchanged the bucket out and when My son got home the service manager call for the hours on the M59 (131 hrs.) and too tell my son that the Kubota Service Rep. was going to be there the next day and the bucket may not be covered under warranty, The son called me and I called the Service manager and had a Minni meltdown over the BH bucket and told the manager all the other problems I was having with the 59.

So about 10-days go by and the Salesman calls me and said, the Kubota rep. thinks all of your problems can be fixed and when can you bring it in? I then say to the Salesman, " Is the bucket going to be covered under warranty" the salesman says, "well I don't know, I'll have to find out" I then say, "If the bucket isn't covered under warranty, You can stick the old bucket where the sun don't shine and send the bill to the Kubota Rep. cause I ain't paying it. Backhoe buckets Are supposed too be made to take a fetching or two during there lifetime and I won't be doing business with you folks again".
It's been 3-weeks and I haven't heard a thing from the Dealership.
David

Thanks for the info. I understand, and it makes sense. Sometimes you just have to take a stand.
Like I said, my experiences have been different. If you read through the last 4 years of M59 postings you will see how other people are viewing them. All in all I'd say they are doing very well for a whole new design. Picky problems here and there, but most owners seem to think that the basic machine is well built and well balanced.

BTW, I got out my own M59 extended warranty and had a look. Sure enough, the backhoe teeth are specifically excluded there. I must have missed reading that. We've used mine hard enough in granite rubble here to cause a few moments of worry about the teeth..... but they are fine. And I think that excluding anything other than routine maintenance on a brand new machine is pure chickenxxxx. If I had seen that exclusion in the warranty I'd have probably just initialed it as I crossed it out, handed the contract back across the table and said: "Nice try!". After all, it's all just negotiation.

With 160 hours on your machine and those picky problems mounting up I don't blame you for blowing off the dealer and posting your feelings. To your benefit, that warranty is a contract that they sold you for money; I doubt that they can get out of it simply because you make them look silly.

When will these companies learn that this is a new era? It's called social networking. Some of the dealers do good and others don't bother to communicate with their own company. Regardless of whether they do or not, us folks who own their machines sure talk to one another. And some of us do it in public like on this forum. No, that isn't aimed at Kubota. It's a general statement aimed at the big global companies everywhere. You'd think their relations and advertising departments would smarten up. Eventually they will.
good luck with it,
rScotty