coolant change: your frequency

[3930dave]

Galvanic corrosion is one wear element in a cooling system.

Galvanic corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I liked their "Lasagna cell" example.

John Thomas - get a good lawyer ASAP - you or bystanders likely sustained massive hearing damage from the Cavitation Noise !

Did the engine manufacturer do everything possible to provide you with the proper information to mitigate the Cavitation Noise, and warn you of the Dangers ?

I'm thinking class action suit here !

:shocked::cool2::laughing:

Rgds, D.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

FEELING SLIGHTLY BETTER TODAY BUT STILL SOME REMAINING STRESS. :confused2:
I picked up my 4 gallons of Peak antifreeze today and asked about the SCA stuff. Advance Auto had a small bottle for around $14 but I passed on it until I talk to Gary again at Barlows. I told the guy at Advance about my big concerns with cavitation since I'd been told about it and he just grinned and didn't really push the sale.
Including pics of the antifreeze I bought. It claims 5 years and many miles of useful life but you know they got to be lying, just promotional advertising crap. I'll do like the SUDT changers 5 times more often than Kubota recommends and change it every month to ensure I'm OK.
The cavitation noise only bothered me and not neighbors since I live pretty far from neighbors and when I was close to their homes, they were gone and my brother was mowing next door but he wears ear protectors when he mows to protect his remaining hearing. I have had this ringing in my ears all day.....Oops, I always have that ringing so not sure cavitation noise caused it.
Anyway, here's the pictures.....let the roar begin!!!!

 

[JoeBuyer]

change it every month to ensure I'm OK.

Sure, maybe Jiffy Lube will open up mobile Jiffy Cool or Jiffy Freeze trucks and they can set up a regular day to stop by our farms and change it for us every month. Get ready for the upsells to top off your Rim Guard and add diesel additive. LOL

 

[Bigfoot62]

Well, I'm glad that some of you find this amusing. Go ahead, laugh it up. I can take it. :thumbsup:

But it's not funny when it happens to you.

Last November, I bought a used Kenworth with a 10.3L CAT engine. After only two months, it started pushing diesel fuel out of the radiator overflow. Long story short: Perforated injector sleeve (copper) caused by electrolysis, galvanic corrosion, cavitation, or whatever you want to call it. Three weeks and $5000 later, I had it back on the road. If the previous owner had maintained the proper SCA level in the coolant, it would have never happened. Simple as that.
My KW is 17 years old and has a million miles on it. I realize that many of you, maybe even most of you, don't keep your tractor that long. Some of you probably sell or trade your tractor with fewer hours on it than either one of my "new" tractors have now. (JD has over 300 hrs and is not yet 2 years old; NH has about 440 hours and is just 3 years old) You may not ever experience a problem. Hope you don't. But if you do, it ain't funny and it ain't cheap to fix.

If you want to think I'm a silly fool for running FleetCharge coolant in all my diesels, that's fine with me. But, last time I checked, I can buy a lot of SCA pre-charged anti-freeze for $5000.

 

[JasG]

Well, I'm glad that some of you find this amusing. Go ahead, laugh it up. I can take it. :thumbsup:

But it's not funny when it happens to you.

Last November, I bought a used Kenworth with a 10.3L CAT engine. After only two months, it started pushing diesel fuel out of the radiator overflow. Long story short: Perforated injector sleeve (copper) caused by electrolysis, galvanic corrosion, cavitation, or whatever you want to call it. Three weeks and $5000 later, I had it back on the road. If the previous owner had maintained the proper SCA level in the coolant, it would have never happened. Simple as that.
My KW is 17 years old and has a million miles on it. I realize that many of you, maybe even most of you, don't keep your tractor that long. Some of you probably sell or trade your tractor with fewer hours on it than either one of my "new" tractors have now. (JD has over 300 hrs and is not yet 2 years old; NH has about 440 hours and is just 3 years old) You may not ever experience a problem. Hope you don't. But if you do, it ain't funny and it ain't cheap to fix.

If you want to think I'm a silly fool for running FleetCharge coolant in all my diesels, that's fine with me. But, last time I checked, I can buy a lot of SCA pre-charged anti-freeze for $5000.

I've seen this on several off road engines, tractors and dozers, along with cylinder liner damage and why I have used at least an additive since college in diesels I maintain. A friend of mine bought a used Deere 850 compact tractor with 1800 hours, by 2000 hours one liner had holes in it. He tore it down himself and sure enough all were damaged. He was actually a diesel mechanic so it was just the cost of parts for him. He said on rebuilds he had done it was easy to tell who maintained a proper cooling system and who did not even if something other than the liner failed. I've seen well maintained engines go well over 10000 hours with very little liner damage vs a not so well maintained.

Also I get a kick out of all the comments about checking freeze protection as a gauge of life. It's not the freeze protection that fails 1st. It's the corrosion protection, cavitation (with diesels) and the build up of crap in the system. Cars today people can get away with more abuse, motorcycles and diesels not so much. A motorcycle forum I go to from time to time this was discussed and how it takes out the water pumps on certain models over time. All to save a couple of bucks.

Here is some more information.
TheDieselStop.Com - www.thedieselstop.com

But what do I know, maybe it was caused by gremlins?

 

[3930dave]

Good examples just listed.

Guys who have been around HEAVY industrial diesels, and have spent the time to learn about maintenance usually understand these cooling system issues well. That said, plenty of compact tractor owners today have not had that learning opportunity - part of the reason I brought SCA up here.

I don't know 'botas well enough to distinguish which models require SCA. I brought this up so that Diesel Newbies would know to check into this issue, esp. with older/larger industrial diesels.

Like Bigfoot62 just detailed, it can get spendy real fast to be on the wrong side of this maintenance issue.

If you trade tractors once you get a second scratch on it, just move along..... no worries, likely.

If you are not into doing maintenance,why are you reading a TBN Equipment forum ?

(All in good fun guys, last 2 comments are just my attempt at humour ).

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

If you really want to step up your coolant maintenance game, start reading below:

Standard Service/Non-Chemical Filters

Click on the Literature tab, for a pdf catalog. Good reading there, general and specific product info.

I run a WF filter on one cooling system - easy way to add SCA, and enables you to particle filter your coolant too. If you still can't sleep at night (JT!) worrying about cooling systems, they have a Stratapore option too.

Towards the back of the catalog, they show a filter mounting head that you can retrofit if you have the space. Fine print recommends using the Severe Duty filter head (not pictured in this catalog), as it is much beefier than the one pictured.

:2cents: Rgds, D.

 

[big bubba]

I mowed yesterday with my Kubota F3080 and I started hearing the cavitation start after the first hour and after 3 hours of mowing it had gotten so loud and I was so relieved that I was done and didn't have to stop in the middle of the job as my engine was destroying itself!!!!
This is my third mowing season with this Kubota (about 65 hours on it) but I'll never start it again till I get a blend of all colors and all brands of antifreeze sold in all of the Auto Parts stores plus Tractor Supply, Trucking Companys, Walgreens and Wal Marts!!!!!!! Now who else may have some other type I've missed?????? Hey, I just thought of something.....maybe I'll check again with Gary at Barlows who I believe told me a couple of weeks ago that they just used

...

we are starting to get concerned....look straight ahead and focus on the coolant container...what sounds do you hear? can you see bubbles? voices? please refer yourself to a professional right away. nightmares too?...... geez, sorry to have triggered the neurosis...just pour some SCA's in your radiator(s) & have a good night's rest.....(poor guy)

 

[JoeBuyer]

I feel cavitation is a very real problem with certain engines and nothing to be worried about with others. Have a Case where it needed a rebuild due to cavitation but have a JD with nearly 10k hours and a Massey with nearly 6k hours. Neither engine has a pedigree of problems with Cavitation, so I figure just stay with Fleetguard at normal mfg recommended changes. We do flush with well water, then flush more with 1 or 2 gallons of distilled water, close the drains, add the amount of coolant for 50% mix, then and remaining distilled water. Run engine and top off with more distilled water. Mark it off and do it again at the mfg recommended change cycle. Don't get worked up about it just because some engines are prone to damage is my $0.02. But do some research on your engines.

 

[big bubba]

so, in terms of kubota diesel engines from bx to m series, are they dry or wet sleeve and is that the major point of distinction on this cavitation problems when we choose proper coolant? all i wanted to know from the start as OP thx in advance

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Don't mean to be making to much light on what can/could be/maybe a serious problem. Just interesting that of all the time I've spent on this Kubota forum I've never heard of a single problem with any Kubota of any year or hours that has ever had this cavitation problem nor have I ever seen it brought up before as an issue with Kubota tractors, ever. Actually thousands of owner members here and readers so surely there's one with personal experience.
Maybe Messicks and other dealers can give a percentage of actual problems that they have dealt with.
Now there seem to be documented problems and issues with big truck engines. Not sure that's a concern to me. Just Kubota tractors, that's all I'm interested in on this Kubota tractor owners forum and actual documented problems that are proven and what actually caused the problem, not speculation.
I guess I'm calling for those that have owned a Kubota with this problem with cavitation or failure to add SCAs causing documented problems to their Kubota engine. Please step forward so I can again start getting a decent nights sleep. Please... no "I heard about a guy 5 counties over that knew a guy that said he heard about this serious problem to a power generator or other non Kubota tractor issue".

 

[number two]

JT you bought the right stuff!Mix 50/50 with distilled water and you're good to go.Drain what you can and refill with your mixed coolant.For the guys that flush their systems with plain water it gets a liite harder since they will have to add more coolant than water to achieve their desired freeze point.For most of us,50/50 provides -34F protection with the proper amount of anti-corrosion protection.70/30 mix gets the -70F stuff for those Montana or Alaska owners.I prefer just to drain and refill on schedule to keep it simple with refilling with 50/50 mix-easy.
Don't worry about cavation and SCA's-those fully forumulated coolants are for heavy-duty engines with replaceable cylinder liners.Our Kubota engines are "parent bore" engines,the pistons run inside the block like your car engines.Heavy Duty engines have replaceable cylinder liners so the engine can be rebuilt numerous times without replacing the block.
I noticed one of the replies mentioned his Kubota manual recommened the use of permanent type antifreeze,well we all know how out-of-date Kubota manuals can be.My first car was a 1961 Impala-well used by the way,still had the window sticker in the glovebox.Only options were antifreeze and AM radio,remember the tube type radios that took a few miles to warm up?I recall methanol being used in the winter and water in the summer with water pump lubricant as an additive.I hope I've not further ignited this thread!

 

[kuboman]

Cavitation occurs when you have small vapor bubbles form on the walls of the cylinders. They are like a tiny explosion that erodes the wall of the cylinder. After enough time it 'eats' a hole right through and then you get antifreeze in the oil or if it is high enough on the cylinder you get the engine burning antifreeze. Generally speaking it is a problem of a wet sleeve design engine. But it is possible with some thin walled parent bore engines. With the modern engines and modern antifreeze the cavitation problem is quite rare now. With a new long life diesel anti-freeze i would not be the least bit afraid to run the full five years.

 

[namesray]

so, since i have used prestone coolant for the past 11 years and no problems (vehicles and equipment), is this the prestone coolant i should be using in my diesel engine kubota equipment?

Prestone® Heavy Duty Antifreeze/Coolant | Prestone®

how long will the "intial sca's" last before needing recharged? if i flush and change coolant every 2 years, will that be ok? as for using tap water with minerals, or distilled water, wouldn't the flush every 2 years clean most of that out. i have used hose water for a few changes and 2 years later when i did the flush and coolant change, the old coolant/mix didn't look any different then when i used the 50/50 premix with distilled water/demineralized water in it. no super rust color or such. what would the tap/hose water do? seems like i even read on one brand of coolant, something in that coolant eliminated the need for distilled water. this was a long while ago when i was researching coolants back then. thought i had a good understanding of what i should be using, but this thread has confused me more again and brought out a lot of good info that for me requires more research.

 

[sw03]

ANY diesel engine's cooling system needs SCA (bitterment). It's like the anode in your water heater, or on the lower unit of an outboard marine engine. Electrolysis happens, and it happens a lot in a diesel. If you don't supply a sacrificial anode, or coolant additive, it will corrode something.
I use this in all my diesels: FleetCharge

Sorry, Kubota does not say you need it for my bx since it does not have wet liners! It is not needed in some kubota's. Even some military diesels do not use it...go figure. And yes I work on them.

This topic is as old on here. Do a search since this is nothing new.

 

[KennyV]

For those that want to justify using regular antifreeze in their diesel engines... you don't need to justify it to anyone, keep doing what you have been doing. Who is it going to hurt...
For those using any type water, same thing, your the only one that may be hurt by it, so keep at it... You may not see the mineral deposits inside the cooling system, so they 'May' not be there.

It amounts to doing everything you can to keep your equipment working, you really don't have to... and if you get by doing the least, that's okay, but don't say you have never seen anything about it... and I sure hope there is not going to be anyone who bothers to get certified, documented evidence of damage for those that want to be 'convinced' ... for those, they can keep doing what they 'think' is okay... for any others wanting to do more, use the best.
And RO-DI water will work as well as distilled ... KennyV

 

[namesray]

not to be a broken record here, but i have tried looking for kubota's own coolant product and i am not having any luck. a earlier post here stated that kubota made there own coolant and i was going to checks the specs on that to see it that had sca's. as far as i have ever known, there is no kubota coolant, so another manufacture coolant would be needed. i looked in all my operators manuels, b7800, rtv 900, and b3200 and the only difference through the years is that the newer b3200 states, use 50/50 mix of antifreeze and "soft" water as compared to the b7800 and rtv 900 manuels stating use 50/50 mix of coolant and fresh clean water. sca's and distilled water are never mentioned. i also checked kubota's website and that states to use 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water.


http://www.kubota.com/service/LubricantMaintenance.aspx


sca's and distilled water are not mentioned at all. i am not down playing any info given here as it makes since to have the nitrate coatings in the sca's and to not have corosive minerals in the water used. i am just confused as to why it is not mentioned in the manuels anywhere. it would make sence that it should be as it would seem to be important. kubota manuels are so specific on which diesel to use, engine oil ap classification with what type of epa engine your tractor has, and the sudt oil, it would just seem that they would specifically state that a coolant with sca's must be used. a few farmers i know of have used just tap or even creek water in their tractors, and when i mention sca's they say they have no idea. those tractors seem to keep going, but who knows what the liners look like. anyone out there know what kubota specifically states to use? there is a sae j1034/sae j814c standard mentioned, but anyone out there know what antifreeze types meet those specs? i am looking for help here.

 

[sdkubota]

I appreciate that some have brought these issues to attention since I was totally ignorant of possible problems and antifreeze types. I would rather be aware of potential problems then go through life without a clue. Thanks to those that brought these issues to light! :drink:

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I appreciate that some have brought these issues to attention since I was totally ignorant of possible problems and antifreeze types. I would rather be aware of potential problems then go through life without a clue. Thanks to those that brought these issues to light! :drink:

Some days I agree with this 100% and other days I have so much "stuff" that I have to know everything about that I just want to be "clueless".

 

[Gator6x4]

Don't mean to be making to much light on what can/could be/maybe a serious problem. Just interesting that of all the time I've spent on this Kubota forum I've never heard of a single problem with any Kubota of any year or hours that has ever had this cavitation problem nor have I ever seen it brought up before as an issue with Kubota tractors, ever. Actually thousands of owner members here and readers so surely there's one with personal experience.
Maybe Messicks and other dealers can give a percentage of actual problems that they have dealt with.
Now there seem to be documented problems and issues with big truck engines. Not sure that's a concern to me. Just Kubota tractors, that's all I'm interested in on this Kubota tractor owners forum and actual documented problems that are proven and what actually caused the problem, not speculation.
I guess I'm calling for those that have owned a Kubota with this problem with cavitation or failure to add SCAs causing documented problems to their Kubota engine. Please step forward so I can again start getting a decent nights sleep. Please... no "I heard about a guy 5 counties over that knew a guy that said he heard about this serious problem to a power generator or other non Kubota tractor issue".

John Thomas you have never owned a Kubota product long enough to change the Anti-Freeze. After a couple of heat cycles you trade for something newer. Sorry couldn't resist. I also have never heard of a cavitation problem with a Kubota product. If someone wants to have piece of mind, TSC sells Fleet Guard Anti-Freeze for diesels engines.