?? Converting PTO attachments to hydraulic

[RaytheOne]

I'm thinking about converting a couple of PTO driven attachments to hydraulic drive, if possible. I need all the help I can get, since I've never done anything like this.

I have a Jinma chipper, and a Wallenstein log winch I'd like to convert.
First question is: The hydraulic system on the machine uses engine oil, not hydraulic fluid, is that an issue with hyd motors?
If not, how do I go about sizing the motor, since I have no info on what the implements require. I'm presently using them on my JD 110TLB. I'd like to use them on a CTL that specs hydraulic flow at 19GPM @3450 psi.

Thanks in advance,

 

[Localmotion]

Out of interest - why do you want to change from good old mechanical pto drive to leaky hydraulic? I have had more problems with seals in hydraulic motors and spool blocks than I've ever had with PTO equipment...

 

[RaytheOne]

Localmotion,

Simple answer is, I may get rid of the tractor, and the CTL is what I would have to work with. No argument about the simplicity of the PTO, but I may not have it available.

Thanks,

 

[Rustyiron]

Large rotary hyd. attachments usually require a pretty high flow and lots of cooling capacity in the hyd system. This may limit what you are able to convert, depending on your tractor's hyd specs. There usually not intended for much more than running a few aux cyl's. I think that your winch may be a good candidate as it is not usually not in continous use, now the chipper may get you into that higher flow. Check out the Surplus Center for motors and compare with your tractors hyd output.

 

[ch47dpilot]

go to surplus center's tech help Surplus Center - Tech Help it should help figuring out pump size

 

[Todd727]

If you have several implements to convert, consider this: Skid Steer LF 3-Point Adaptors

Preserves the flexibility for future PTO use too. I got one to use my flail mower as a tree trimmer and for trail maintenance.

 

[RaytheOne]

Todd727,

I hadn't seen that before, Thanks!!

Looks similar to what I had in mind, but probably works better. :laughing: I was going to weld my Quick-Hitch onto a SSQA plate, and figure out how to come up with a motor mounting set up.

 

[MHarryE]

The only problem with engine oil in hydraulic motors is engine oil is expensive. If you look at Caterpillar's fluid guide, covers everything from their smallest mini-excavator to the largest haul trucks and mining shovels, you will find DEO as a recommended oil for hydraulic systems, especially high ambient temperatures. Some will say that detergents in engine oil will foam and cause problems. 60 years ago that might have been true.

Your CTL provides 38 HP at the numbers you provided.

 

[Todd727]

If you decide to build you own, the one in the link has some good features. The ability to move the motor allows you to keep the PTO shaft straight for different implements, which helps prevent losing any power in the u-joints. Give them a call and they can also explain the pump sizing.

 

[Aging TOO Fast]

Todd727,

I hadn't seen that before, Thanks!!

Looks similar to what I had in mind, but probably works better. :laughing: I was going to weld my Quick-Hitch onto a SSQA plate, and figure out how to come up with a motor mounting set up.

for building your own setup-

surplus center has these (4 to choose sizes gpm) hydraulic motors with
1 3/8 6T spline pto motors

Surplus Center


tell us what you do/ put together.
good luck

 

[J_J]

I'm thinking about converting a couple of PTO driven attachments to hydraulic drive, if possible. I need all the help I can get, since I've never done anything like this.

I have a Jinma chipper, and a Wallenstein log winch I'd like to convert.
First question is: The hydraulic system on the machine uses engine oil, not hydraulic fluid, is that an issue with hyd motors?
If not, how do I go about sizing the motor, since I have no info on what the implements require. I'm presently using them on my JD 110TLB. I'd like to use them on a CTL that specs hydraulic flow at 19GPM @3450 psi.

Thanks in advance,

Engine oil is not a problem using hyd motors. My Power-Trac has been using engine oil for all hyd for about 20 years, and is the recommend fluid for the hyd system.

You will need to find a hyd motor that will drive the attachment at the correct rpm, and develop the HP to do the job.

A hyd motor will develop a certain HP based on the cu in, and the hyd pressure.

You need to know how much HP the PTO attachment is using and match that HP using the correct hyd motor.

You will be interested in cu in displacement , hyd pressure, and rpm.

GPM into a certain displacement will determine the hyd motor rpm.

The pump you use will use a certain HP to develop hyd energy, and this potential energy is transferred to a hyd motor which will develop the HP at about 85 % efficiency.

You can figure the HP to run your pump using the pressure and displacement of the pump using the hyd calculator at Surplus Hydraulics. Link is below.

Go here and click on Tech Help. Select calculators for hyd motor speed and torque.

Surplus Center - Hydraulic Cylinders Pumps Motors

 

[RaytheOne]

Thanks for all of the ideas!!

Have to wait and see what happens with the 110TLB, before I do anything rash.

Appreciate the feedback, take care.

 

[J_J]

RaytheOne.

This is what you have on the 110TLB for hydraulics.

The total flow doesn't add up. Maybe the difference is the PS.

Hydraulic System:
Type of System . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Open Center
Pumps . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3, Gear
Total Flow - gpm (lpm) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23.6 (89.2)
System Operating Pressure, psi (kPa) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,000 (20,684)
Hydraulic Flow To Loader, gpm (lpm) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.2 (46.1)
Hydraulic Flow To Backhoe, gpm (lpm) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16.3 (61.5)
Oil Cooler . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Steel, thick core,190 sq. in. (123,024 sq. m m)



If you can use total pump flow, then when sourcing hyd motors, use the GPM's available to select a hyd motor.

If the hyd pressure potential is higher on one machine, you would select a hyd motor taking this into account. A relief valve might or should be required across the hyd motor.

 

[JoeBuyer]

Does anyone know of a hydraulic motor in the configuration of these Prince pumps?

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/pumpsPTO.pdf

Or if the Prince pumps can act as motors if piped backwards? The tab on the edge of the page of this link says pumps and motors but I see no data for motor operation. I have a remote gearbox with a PTO shaft that I want to run without fabricating something to hold the motor in place, plus space is a problem. The slip on setup with a restraining chain would be nice to act as a motor.

 

[J_J]

What configuration are you talking about ?

That pump can not be used as a motor.

The pressure rating is only about 2200 psi.

The hyd pump is driven by the PTO shaft.

A hyd motor is driven by hyd fluid flow from a hyd pump.

HYD MOTORS WITH SPLINED SHAFT

Surplus Center - 4.95 CU IN PTO DRIVE MOTOR

Surplus Center - 6.15 CU IN PTO DRIVE MOTOR

Surplus Center - 7.63 CU IN PTO DRIVE MOTOR

 

[JoeBuyer]

What configuration are you talking about ?
That pump can not be used as a motor.
The pressure rating is only about 2200 psi.
The hyd pump is driven by the PTO shaft.

I want to "decouple" a tractor with a standard PTO drive for special applications where the implement would be offset to the side of the tractor, yet I want to drive it from the tractor's PTO where I would have a Prince "slip on" pump. I can't use the tractor hydraulics because it is open center power beyond and using some other function would stop my implement. Yes I know this means a reserve tank, relief valve, breather vent,,,,,, I have figured that. So for simplicity I would like to have two slip on units, one pump and one motor with the chain restraints.

I was not so much worried about the motor's rated pressure because I would be driving it with the Prince pump which as you pointed out is 2250 psi and I would have a relief valve. I have seen the motors you have links to on the Surplus website but was looking for something as simple to mount as the Prince pump for a motor.

 

[RaytheOne]

If you have several implements to convert, consider this: Skid Steer LF 3-Point Adaptors

Preserves the flexibility for future PTO use too. I got one to use my flail mower as a tree trimmer and for trail maintenance.

Well, this is what I ended up buying. Haven't brought it home yet, it's still at work. The CTL should be in at the end of the week. So as soon as it's here, I'll get this hooked up. Should be 'da bomb!!

Thanks again Todd 727

 

[SpringHollow]

Do you have a link to your CTL?

Thanks,

Ken

 

[RaytheOne]

Do you have a link to your CTL?

Thanks,

Ken

Ken, here you go: 323D Compact Track Loader from John*Deere

 

[Todd727]

Well, this is what I ended up buying. Haven't brought it home yet, it's still at work. The CTL should be in at the end of the week. So as soon as it's here, I'll get this hooked up. Should be 'da bomb!!

Thanks again Todd 727

Good to hear. I think you'll be happy. I just picked up a cheap 5 foot rotary brush hog to use for trail maintenance too. The flail does great, but occasionally I need to use a rotary to chop up the larger limbs and debris that accumulate. I may try hooking up my post hole digger to it next.